Transcript - Radio National - 24 March 2010

SUBJECTS: Health debate and recent State election results

Fran Kelly: Joining us from our Canberra studio for "Polls Apart" is Financial Services Minister Chris Bowen and from his hometown of Adelaide Shadow Education Minister Christopher Pyne. Good morning to you both.

Now, this morning I want to test the capacity of both of you to move outside a little of your party political straightjackets, and I'm going to ask both of you to find something to praise in your opposition. Listeners like positive politics; Christopher Pyne what did you like with what the Prime Minister had to say in the great health debate yesterday?

Christopher Pyne: Look Fran, I have to say I thought the Prime Minister had a very decent pair of R.M Williams boots on, and as I am an Adelaideladian wearing R.M Williams boots by choice; I thought that was the most positive thing about his performance. Nice tie, nice suit, hair neatly positioned and well presented, but I don't think he offered much substance to the Australian people.

Kelly: Ok, so in other words you can't really step outside that political straightjacket. Are you saying there was nothing worthy in the content presented by the PM?

Pyne: Well I don't think the content was worthy and I think it was a sort of mish-mash of motherhood statements which were designed to get the worm going in his direction. And an in substantive attack on the Opposition Leader and a trite/not-real call for the Opposition to work together with the Government when at the same time he was telling blatant untruths about Mr Abbott's record. There's not much to praise in that and I'm sure the worm, which has supported Labor leaders since 1993, and therefore one might think it might be a slightly Labor leaning worm, awarded the debate to Kevin Rudd because people like to hear platitudes sometimes. In terms of substance and in terms of presentation, Mr Abbott won the debate hands down. That was recorded by the vox-pops on television last night and on the Adelaidenow poll this morning in the Tiser.

Kelly: Tony Abbott won the debate hands down you reckon?

Pyne: I think the public, or who I've spoken to since leaving the debate, according to the vox-pops on TV news last night and according to the Adelaidenow poll on the Tiser website the public have awarded the debate to Tony Abbott because they can see through Kevin Rudd.

Kelly: Alright, Chris Bowen what did you like of Tony Abbott's performance and content yesterday?

Chris Bowen: Courageous call from Christopher there. I think his spin cycle is in overdrive. Look, I thought Fran; it was a good thing the debate occurred. I think it was a good thing that the Prime Minister and the alternative Prime Minister were engaging on the issue which is front of line for so many Australians. I mean poll after poll shows it is front of line for so many Australians, a vast majority of Australians. It was good to see a debate on the issues.

Kelly: Ok, but let me ask you again. What did you like about what you heard from Tony Abbott?

Bowen: Well, I do try very hard to give credit where it's due Fran, but it's hard to be positive when the performance yesterday was so negative. To be fair the vast majority of independent commentators are finding it hard to say anything positive about Tony Abbott's performance, so it's hard for me to find anything positive in it.

Kelly: What then there for the Prime Ministers hope, which he keeps stating in this debate, which is he wanted to work with the Opposition in health. If you can't find anything positive, there's no basis there for working together.

Bowen: If Tony Abbott wants to sit down and talk seriously about health reform, and the Prime Minister has said 'come and work with us' that invitation is there from the Prime Minister very clearly yesterday. Just as we're sitting down with the Premier of Western Australia, the Liberal Premier of Western Australia today, just as we're sitting down with Premiers and Chief Ministers across the country, and that offer is there for Mr Abbott as well.

Kelly: Was it a fair contest though, I mean it's been written about plenty this morning. Really Tony Abbott had no hope in this because he went in without a policy. He went in with no clothes effectively.

Bowen: Well that's not our fault Fran. Tony Abbott's being saying 'bring it on, bring it on', and the Prime Minister's been running away from him. Well yesterday it was a clear contest and a clear result. And the Prime Minister had a plan for health for the nation. Tony Abbott had one liners, a grudge, a chip on his shoulder and personal attacks against the Prime Minister. And Chris can re-write history today and say 'Tony Abbott won on the substance', but Chris and I were at the same debate yesterday; we were sitting on the same table and hearing different things.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, Tony Abbott did really suffer from not having a policy to promote.

Pyne: Look Fran, it's not the job of the Opposition to leap to the agenda of the Government. It's not our job to put out policies because the Government demands it. Governments have been demanding oppositions put out policies since time immemorial. The only reason they want to do that of course is to try and pull the policy down so that it loses its bite closer to the election. We will release our health policy at the appropriate time. I don't think Tony Abbott was disadvantaged yesterday because our policy is to actually give people real power to local boards in New South Wales and Queensland to major hospitals. And our policy is to try and create three and a half thousand new beds in hospitals because that's what the hospitals are crying out for. That's the only way of cutting waiting lists.

Kelly: And is your policy for a sole funder in health?

Pyne: The full tenant of our policy will be seen closer to the election, but as I said we're not going to jump to the Government's tune. The Labor Party's policy is essentially a non-policy of bureaucrats, continuing the blame game, of Kevin Rudd's motherhood statements, which might sound all very pleasant, but actually aren't delivering any kind of outcomes in Government. This call for Tony Abbott to work with the Government: On the one hand the Government is accusing Tony Abbott of gross calumnies, on the one hand Kevin Rudd is saying 'work with us' while he also telling extraordinary porky pies about Tony Abbott's record.

I mean when they called on us to work with them on Indigenous disadvantage they we responded to that challenge and we came up with a number of things when Brendan Nelson was leader that we'd like to do with Indigenous health and Indigenous disadvantage, but of course Kevin Rudd didn't really mean he wanted to work with us and he rejected all of that. This is just more spin from a Government that is just tied up with spin and does not have any substance. I wish the Government could start pointing to any achievements they've made. To any real reform in the last two and a half years because they haven't made any.

Bowen: (inaudible)

Kelly: Ok Chris Bowen, just one this, we'll get off health in a minute. We have been talking a lot about it this morning, but just on that. Has the Government been achieving anything in the last three years? Is that a fair cop?

Bowen: Where do you want to start Fran? We could start with avoiding the recession. We could start with...

Kelly: I think he's talking about hospitals.

Bowen: I'm more than happy to talk about hospitals; the 50 per cent increase in health funding, the lifting of the cap on GP training places, the very significant increase in beds that flows through from that health funding. I thought Chris was actually making a broader point as well.....

Pyne: But how many beds?

Bowen: Well the Prime Minister said yesterday. You were in the room when the Prime Minister outlined how many beds resulted from the increase in funding.

Pyne: But how many beds?

Bowen: It's several thousand Chris.

Pyne: How many? You're the Cabinet Minister, shouldn't you know?

Bowen: Chris this is a debate, what happens is you have your say and then I have mine. You've asked me to outline our achievements. I've said I'm happy to start with health and then I'm happy to go to the biggest increase in the aged pension in 100 years. I'm happy to go to the increase in the childcare rebate to 50 per cent, which has helped working families, then I'm happy to go to the national curriculum, then I'm happy to go to the biggest school rebuilding program in Australia's history.

Kelly: Alright, alright I'm going to stop you there because you'll have plenty more weeks to do all of that before the election. Lets move on now to what is still in the news and that is the state election results on the weekend because the dust still hasn't settled on those and we still don't know who is really going to be in government in South Australian and Tasmania yet, finally. Chris Bowen, votes have turned on Labor in South Australian and Tasmania, no doubt about that. There were also big swings in the Higgins and Bradfield by elections last year in Victoria and New South Wales. Western Australia switched to the Liberals in 2008. Tony Abbott has put it down to voters being sick and tired of spin over substance. Do you think there is a message here for your Government?

Bowen: Fran, I've always had the view that people who try to read too much into State results for Federal implications are engaging in a futile exercise. All through the Howard years Labor State Governments received very solid results. In Western Sydney, John Howard would amass big majorities of seats and the State Labor candidates would amass the same majorities in the same seats. People in Australia differentiate between Federal and State politics and there are plenty of stark examples of that. You can go back to 1975 and 1976 just after Gough Whitlam's very massive defeat Federally Neville Wran was elected Premier of New South Wales.

Traditionally people vote on the issues. Now there were some very real local factors in both those elections. Quite obviously in South Australia some local factors over the last few months, which affected the campaign. In Tasmania, the Labor Government had a troubled term. A number of ministerial resignations and a Premier leaving during the term and they had a troubled term. The one implication I would read from it Fran is this. Six months ago people said Mike Rann was indestructible, he was untouchable, he was riding high. I think the South Australian election result is a reminder that every election is winnable and every election is losable, and that the prospect of Tony Abbott being the Prime Minister after the next election is a real one.

Kelly: Ok Christopher Pyne, final word to you this week. Are you looking forward to another term of Mike Rann Government in South Australia?

Pyne: Well I'm not looking forward to it Fran, but I don't think it's absolutely guaranteed at this stage. I think what the Tasmanian and South Australian elections have proven is that the era of style over substance, the Blairite era is essentially coming to an end and Kevin Rudd has caught the end of that period. And unfortunately for the Labor Party, the public are seeing through spin and style. They're much more interested in substance and authenticity. And I think they'd rather have leaders who told it the way they thought it really was rather than simply repeat platitudes and motherhood statements, which were designed to win votes. I think the public will reward authenticity and in South Australia that's what they did on Saturday with Isobel Redmond. Let's not forget we were ten seats behind.

It's been a remarkably good result for the South Australian Liberal party, but those people who thought we were going to win, I think were probably being excessively hopeful. We will win in Tasmania, and I think that was a great achievement for Will Hodgeman, but again it's a reward for substance over spin and style. I think the Labor party has caught the wrong end of that period federally.

Kelly: Ok, Christopher Pyne and Chris Bowen thank you for joining us.

Ends