Transcript - Radio National - 23 June 2010

SUBJECTS: Party Room Process; Labor Leadership; Liberal Party Policies; Greens Preferences; War in Afghanistan

Fran Kelly: Joining me in the Parliament House studio, squeezed into the Parliament House studio are Financial Services Minister Chris Bowen and Shadow Education Minister Christopher Pyne. Good morning to you both.

Chris Bowen: Good morning.

Christopher Pyne: Good morning Fran.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, what did you hear from your leader in the joint party room yesterday?

Pyne: What Tony told the party room yesterday was that we needed to be disciplined, we need to remain focused and we needed to present a positive alternative to the Government as he election approached. And if we did all of that then the enormous challenge of turfing out a Government after one term was achievable, but we're a long way from victory and there shouldn't be any euphoria.

Kelly: He said you're a long way from victory?

Pyne: We had a long way to go was I think the term he used.

Kelly: Did he say "Victory is within your ready grasp,"?

Pyne: Not to my recollection, but people have often will have different interpretations about what somebody says. Sometimes they can be more colourful than others.

Kelly: Did he say, perhaps more innocuously, that you're in reach of a famous victory?

Pyne: Well, he has said for some time that the next election is winnable. Every election is winnable. But certainly the Government starts with a 17 seat buffer thanks to the redistribution. They've only been in government for one term. The last government defeated after one term was 78 years ago. They have all the resources of the taxpayer at their disposal and the public service to (inaudible) against the Opposition. So certainly the odds are stacked against us, but I think the people have so fallen out of love with "Kevin O Lemon" that we have a chance of winning the next election.

Kelly: And that's how things feel in your seat and across South Australia in your state?

Pyne: Certainly in the last six months, the mood in my electorate has changed very dramatically, and since the Government tried to introduce a great big new tax on mining. I think in many respects that's been the final straw with voters, particularly in South Australia, Western Australia and Queensland, which have a heavy reliance on mining. And that comes on top of course of them ditching the emissions trading scheme, which I think suggested to people that Mr Rudd doesn't stand for anything at all; the pink bats fiasco, the school hall debacle and so on and so forth.

Kelly: Chris Bowen, what about the mood in your caucus yesterday? Because now we hear the PM sent his Chief of Staff to talk to people like you and other caucus member to find out whether they still supported the PM. Did you get a visit from the Chief of Staff?

Bowen: Well, Fran there's a lot of media speculation about leadership change. Why would you change leaders when you have a Prime Minister who got Australia through the Global Financial Crisis? Why would you change leaders when you have a Prime Minister who is working hard on health reforms; something that was too hard for the previous government? Who is working with Steven Conroy on delivering an NBN, who has delivered paid parental leave, something that the previous government couldn't get around to? Who's focusing on the future? So we're getting on with the job.

Kelly: So is that a yes? Did you get an approach from Alister Jordan?

Bowen: I think this week shows we're getting on with the job; pair parental leave, welfare reform and NBN. We're getting on with the job. And all this media speculation; I understand journalists have to have something to write about. It's all very interesting and it's all exciting. It's going on in the media; it's not going on in the party room.

Kelly: Well, it is pretty interesting if a first term Prime Minister is sending out his Chief of Staff to test the loyalty of his troops. Now, here we are. We're all gathered here in this small Parliament House studio. Just let us in on the secret. Did Alister Jordan canvass your support for the PM?

Bowen: No. I talk to Alister, of course, about a whole range of things, but the answer to that question is no.

Kelly: Ok. What about the mood in the electorate more broadly because there's been some more tragic polling for Labor in marginal seat polling, which seems to be the focus now showing you'd be wiped out in at least one seat. The seat of Lindsay, I think shows a 12 per cent swing against the Government, mainly due to asylum seekers. In Queensland the mining tax is killing you. We've got another poll out suggesting the ETS to the left is really hurting you in inner city seats in Brisbane. Does any of this match what you're feeling in the electorate or does it surprise you?

Bowen: Look, as I've said, Fran, we came to office with an ambitious agenda. We had a lot to do. We wanted to reform education, health and we had an ambitious agenda across the board and we've achieved a lot of that. Some people are expressing frustration that we haven't achieved more, and we get that message. We understand that. They want us to continue on that agenda and they want us to lay out a second term agenda, which we'll do. So, we get that frustration. We understand that and we're responding to that.

This election will be tough. I think it would be better for Tony Abbott before he declared victory at yesterday's caucus meeting, actually issued a policy.  Call me old fashioned, but I think that would be a nice thing to do if he wants to win the election. This election will be close. We understand people's frustration. We get that message. People say, "Yes, you've done a good job in managing the economy. You got us through the Global Financial Crisis. We recognise that. A tick for that, but tell us your second term agenda." And that's what we're in the process of doing.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, just on that. I'd never thought I'd see the day where Tony Abbott was presenting as a small target.

Pyne: Well, we're not presenting as a small target, Fran.

Kelly: Pretty quiet in the last few weeks.

Pyne: Well, no, we've put out policies all year. We're the only party that has.....

Kelly: In the last few weeks there's been very little from Tony Abbott, very little from you for that matter really.

Pyne: Not true. I mean, I'm; so I've been hiding from the press? That will come as a revelation to my colleagues. Newsflash, Pyne hides from media. No, the....

Kelly: Sounds like a head line from the Onion. Go on.

Pyne: We've been putting out policies all year. We're the only party with a climate change action policy for example, since the Government ditched the emissions trading scheme. We're the ones with a climate change action policy. Of course, we have a more generous paid parental leave scheme. Tony Abbot's green army policy has been out for some time. We have a policy on the mining tax, which is that we'll scrap it. That's our policy on the mining tax. We've also got a policy to cut spending, unlike the Labor party who're addicted to spending. So the contrasts are there for people to choose at the next election. They can either go with a Government that's addicted to spending and funds it by new taxes, or they can vote for an Opposition that will cut taxes and cut spending.

Bowen: Fran, it's an interesting point you raise because there was one poll out this week that showed 47 per cent of voters said the Liberal Party had a better chance of winning if they dump Tony Abbott as leader. I think the party must be getting that message because he is on the witness protection program. He's in hiding.

Pyne: That's not true.

Bowen: They wheel him out a question time to ask one question and then cryogenically freeze him again because every time he talks he loses the Liberal Party votes.

Kelly: I'm not sure you should be raising the topic of changing leaders right now.

Bowen: Well, you know it's just an interesting point.

Pyne: What I want to know is the guy in caucus who stood up yesterday in the Labor Party and said, "Nobody discuss the leadership." We don't mention the war. Nobody discusses leadership.

Kelly: Ok.

Bowen: As you know, you're not welcome in our caucus.

Pyne: Oh, so it must be true.

Kelly: Ok, the inner workings of both the party rooms remain a mystery I must say to all of us today. Look, I want to move through a couple of other things quite quickly. There's just a few minutes left. On the mining tax, Laura Tingle in the Fin Review, Chris Bowen, suggests that there are big changes afoot. For instance the low value resources such as clay, sand, gravel, rock and limestone are expected to be dumped from the tax regime and the Government could be making, big, big concessions on where the tax cuts in.

Bowen: Well, this is speculation, Fran.

Kelly: Can you confirm?

Bowen: No, there you go. Sorry....

Pyne: Confirm or deny?

Bowen: I'm sorry to disappoint you, Fran, but there's no exclusive on Polls Apart this morning. We've been involved in extensive discussions, despite the commentary of some people that there haven't been consultations. There's been about 265 hours of meeting with the Treasury between mining companies and the Treasury. That's not counting meetings with the Prime Minister, the Treasurer and the Resources Minister. There have been very extensive discussions. We've been open to constructive feedback and we'll be responding when we're in a position to, but I'm not going to get into speculation about what that will involve.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, the Coalition invited Andrew Forrest, one of the miners into your party room.

Pyne: No, we had a....

Kelly: (inaudible) your party room...

Pyne: No, we had a party meeting yesterday morning, which we do every Tuesday. There was a separate meeting later for those interested in what Twiggy Forrest had to say, so I don't know how many people attended. I didn't attend, but it was a routine party meeting.

Kelly: Ok, a couple of issues now briefly. Back to the polls, the level of polling in the published polls say Labor's primary vote is down around 35 per cent; two party preferred and Labor edges ahead. We're looking at Green preferences for Labor to get across the line in that poll. Christopher Pyne, is the Coalition doing anything to woo Green preferences?

Pyne: Look, Fran our enemy is the Labor Party. Our opponent is Labor. We think they are the ones that are damaging the economy with the mining tax, with their other changes, so they are our opponents. We won't be having any particular - a far as I'm aware - any particular strategy about the Greens. We'll leave it up to the Greens to distribute their own preferences as they always do. I think Greens voters are famous for being ones who don't follow how to vote cards; put their preferences where they think they should best be put. And the Coalition is focused on the Labor Party and "Kevin O'Lemon".

Kelly: Chris Bowen, you're pretty savvy on these matters when it comes to how the polling is looking. Do you think an 80/20 split for Greens preferences is probably over egging it?

Bowen: Well, Fran, time will tell where Green preferences will go. Green voters, of course, as Christopher said, I agree, like to make their own decisions on these things. I think they'll bear in mind the fact that although they might have a different approach to us and they might disagree with some of the things we've done, we do believe in climate change. We believe it's real. Tony Abbott wanders around telling school kids in poor old Christopher's electorate that it was hotter in Jesus' day so therefore climate change isn't real. I think they'll bear all those facts in mind and they'll make their mind up at the time.

Kelly: Can we finish today on a more dignified note? And of course the tragic news this week of three soldiers killed in Afghanistan. Chris Bowen, this news coincided this week with the publishing of an Essential Poll, which show that 61 per cent of voters want the troops withdrawn. Is support for the commitment in Afghanistan waning and obviously the mounting casualties isn't helping?

Bowen: Look, I think it's understandable, Fran, that when we do have these casualties the Australian people reflect on this and reflect on the war and question that. I understand that and I accept that. We're committed to this. This is important. Afghanistan is the headquarters of terrorism. We've lost 100 Australian through terrorist activity and I understand the very important concerns of Australians about the loss of Australian troops. Of course we all feel that. We all feel that very deeply. This is nevertheless, a war that is necessary. And we have a defined mission and we need to complete that mission.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, I know there is bipartisan support for that mission, but the Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has also suggested that perhaps more Australian troops should be sent. Is that Coalition policy?

Pyne: Look, I think Tony Abbott and I and the Coalition would all rather Australia wasn't involved in any wars, but the difficulty is that Afghanistan has been used as a base for terrorism in the past against Australians, against other western countries. We have a responsibility as one of those western countries to protect our people and we can't allow Afghanistan to be taken over by the Taliban and be used as a base for terrorism. And therefore.....

Kelly: More troops?

Pyne: We're fighting there for freedom and liberty, as we've done for 110 years. We have a very proud tradition of supporting liberty and will continue to do so.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, Chris Bowen, thanks very much for joining us.

Ends.