Transcript - Doorstop - 12 April 2010

SUBJECTS: BER Taskforce; Education Union boycott of NAPLAN

Journalist: So you're here today to speak about the new taskforce that the Government's appointed to investigate the Building Education Revolution.

Christopher Pyne: Julia Gillard has today basically admitted defeat in the Building the Education Revolution school halls rip-off by announcing a task force to investigate the claims of mismanagement and waste in the Primary Schools for 21^st Century program. Of course this doesn't satisfy the Opposition's calls for a full judicial inquiry because this taskforce, while an enormous back down, and admission of failure on the part of the Government, will still report directly to the minister. It'll have no more independence than the Department of Education. What is required to investigate properly this school hall rip-off program is a judicial inquiry which can summon witnesses, which can subpoena documents, which is independent of Government and can report on its own timeline.

Very cynically, the Government has set a reporting time for this task force for after the next Federal Election. So this is a cynical election year fix designed to get them out of a spot of bother because the number of examples and the sheer magnitude of the waste in these school hall rip-off programs has become too embarrassing for the Government.

So they've announced a task force. It reports to the minister. It reports after the federal election. It's designed to get them through the next six months. It's not exactly designed to have the outcome that all taxpayers want, which is to find out if they've been getting value for money. The Opposition certainly welcomes the admission of failure on the part of the Government and recognises that this is a humiliating back down for the minister, but it doesn't satisfy our demands for full independent judicial inquiry. In fact it only strengthens them, because what it recognises is that even the Government knows that there are too many examples and too much waste and mismanagement. And the likelihood is that we've achieved only 50 per cent of our value for money, which means you may have got eight billion dollars out of a 16 billion dollar program as taxpayers.

Journalist: It was my understanding that the first report for the task force was due in three months and the second in six months.

Pyne: There's an interim report in three months, but a full report in six months. The beauty of a judicial inquiry is that a judicial inquiry can summon witnesses, it can subpoena documents and in doing so it can act and operate independent of government. The problem with this task force is that it's just another layer of bureaucracy. It's just a cynical exercise in pushing off the inevitable bad report until after the next election.

Interestingly it comes just before the auditor general is likely to hand down their report into waste and mismanagement in the Building the Education Revolution. And I half suspect the Minister already knows what the recommendations of that auditor general's report are going to be, because she's trying to pre-empt it by announcing this task force.

Journalist: Do you expect that the results of this investigation were they to come out prior to election, would have dire consequences for the Government.

Pyne: Look there's no doubt that the examples of waste and mismanagement in the school hall rip-off are now manifest. This morning I was at Berridale in Southern New South Wales. They had asked for a 280,000 dollar library. It ended up costing 908,000 dollars. They can't use it because it doesn't have a fire exit, it doesn't have air conditioning and it doesn't have a flue for its gas heater. I mean these seem to be minor problems, but actually what they point to is massive waste of money and rorting of the school halls program. The Government is trying to pre-empt that through this taskforce. What they're really saying is, ""yes we've got it wrong, but we don't want anyone to know about it until after the next election.""

So the Opposition still renews its call for a judicial inquiry into the school hall program because only that can get to the bottom of just how much money has been wasted and ripped off.

Journalist: So you don't agree with the appointment of Brad Orgill?

Pyne: We don't have any dispute with the man that's been appointed to head this taskforce, but he doesn't have the independence that a judicial inquiry would have. He still reports to the Minister. His timelines are pushed out until after the next election. So he can do his work, but it doesn't actually resolve the key point, which is who is running the programs that the Minister for Education is supposed to be in charge of. Why can't she get a program right? Whether it's computers in schools, whether it's the trade training centres, whether it's working to deliver the NAPLAN tests, this Minister has a history of not being able to deliver a program successfully.

Journalist: Julia Gillard was unclear this morning on whether money would be able to be recouped if the taskforce found there were faults in some of the projects. Do you know if the task force does have the power to recoup some of that money?

Pyne: All the money for the school halls debacle has already been allocated; every cent of it. So Julia Gillard is basically slamming the door of the stable after the horse has bolted. If there was going to be a task force to manage the roll out of 16 point two billion dollars, it should have been set up before the money started being spent. Quite frankly, half the people who may have been ripping off the Government could well be half way to Honolulu by now and there would be no way of getting the money back. This task force can't recoup the money from the people who ripped it off from the taxpayer. It's simply window dressing. Only a judicial inquiry can get to the bottom of how much taxpayers money has been wasted and who is to blame for it.

Journalist: How much will that cost compared to this task force?

Pyne: Well this task force is costing 15 million dollars. It is a very substantial amount of money. A judicial inquiry may well cost about the same amount money, but by the same token it will be able to subpoena witnesses, it will be able to summon documents, it will be able to get to the bottom of the program and apportion blame for who is responsible.

Julia Gillard never wants to admit that she has failed at anything. It's time Julia Gillard took responsibility for not being able to deliver an education program.

Journalist: And this just seems to be another hit to the Government; after the insulation fiasco and the boats coming in all this type of stuff. What's this showing about the Government?

Pyne: This task force into the school hall rip-off comes hot on the heels of their final recognition that the home insulation program was a disaster which hurt people and damaged houses. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to realise that the home insulation program was a disaster. They're having to be dragged kicking and screaming to recognising that the taxpayer is being ripped off through the school hall program. And they've finally had to admit that they've weakened the border protection laws to allow more and more boat people to come into Australia. The Government is incompetent and that will be one of the central issues of the next election. Who is competent to run the country? A party that can't deliver home insulation programs, a Government that can't deliver school hall programs and a Government that has weakened our border protection. Or a party that has a record in Government of being able to do all those things successfully.

Journalist: Do you think the entire project should be put on hold until delivered in three months?

Pyne: Certainly the round three part of the program, which has not yet been rolled out should be suspended until the public can be assured that the taxpayers are getting value for money. That is hundreds of millions of dollars. Certainly a lot of the money is already lost, but that would be some way of finding out and making sure that taxpayers get proper value for money.

Journalist: What do you think about the Union boycott today?

Pyne: The Coalition doesn't support the boycott of the NAPLAN Tests by the Education Union. We believe the literacy and numeracy tests should go ahead because we initiated them of course in government. But Julia Gillard is responsible for this failure because she has refused to sit down with the Australian Education Union and talk to them about their concerns. The Coalition supports the Myschool website but we believe it should be married with new powers for principals to be autonomous and to be able to make decisions to affect outcomes; it shouldn't simply be a venue to create a culture of complaint which it currently is. Julia Gillard has created the culture of complaint without putting the power in their hands of anyone to fix these problems, and that is where the Myschool website falls down. The Coalition doesn't support the strike action being taken by the AEU, but we do believe it's time for the Minister to swallow her pride and sit down with the Australian Education Union and resolve these difficulties.

We absolutely reject the use of parents as strike breakers, as a parent myself I know the last thing I would want to be doing, either me or my wife, is going into schools and creating division and disunity between the parent body and the teacher body, the only loser from that can be the students. Schools work best when parents and teachers are working together. Julia Gillard has got form on creating division in schools. Firstly she told parents to have a go at teachers about the outcomes of their students, now she's saying that parents might be used as strike breakers in schools. She is quite detached from reality, living in a parallel universe all of her own, every parent knows the best outcomes for students are achieved by co-operation with teachers not by fighting with teachers. She is really asking parents to cross teacher picket lines at schools, with all the dangers inherent in that in order to fulfil some egotistical view that she holds that's he will beat the Union. When unions have problems with Government or business they have to negotiate, they have to sit down and talk to them; Julia Gillard seems to be the only person in Australia who believes that instead she'll bring in strike breakers.

Journalist: how should The Government respond to these calls by the Union then?

Pyne: The Government should negotiate with the Union by sitting down and talking to them. I'm not saying they should give into all of their demands, but the Myschool website could be improved, by giving principals more autonomy, and it's quite conceited and arrogant of Julia Gillard to think that she doesn't need to talk to the Union. The Union represents 180,000 teachers, it's no friend of The Coalition, and never has been but even I if I was Minister would be prepared to talk to them about their concerns and not just like Marie Antoinette ignore their demands and just expect them to give in to whatever the Government wants.

Journalist: So what is the solution though, you're for the website, where do you see as being the middle ground?

Pyne: Well the Coalition initiated the literacy and numeracy tests, the Coalition supports the Myschool website and was going to do it if we were re elected, the Coalition thinks it should go further and bring in principal autonomy so the principals can actually affect outcomes that are poorly performing. We don't support the strike action by the Union, but we believe the Government should talk to the Union about their concerns as I have, as I will if we win Government at the end of this year. The solution to this is about negotiation and opening channels of discussion. It's not about, in true arrogant Labor style, saying it's our way or the high way which seems to be Julia Gillard's attitude.

Journalist: Can the tests still go ahead if the teachers do end up boycotting it, it's been said that parents can supervise it and they can get casual supervisors in. Is there anything wrong with doing it that way?

Pyne: Nobody believes that conflict in schools is good for the school. Julia Gillard seems to be the only person who believes that, in her unrealistic world parents can be used as scabs and strike breakers. No parent I know wants to go into a school and do the job of the teacher, no parent I know wants to be a scab in their school and damage the prospect of co-operation between the teacher body and the parent body for the good of the students. The student needs to be placed front and centre at what we want out of schooling, they are not to be used as a political football between the Minister and the Australian Education Union.

Journalist: Do you think this is a problem because Julia doesn't have children, so she's not aware of the problems that us parents have, getting our kids off to school and all those sorts of things?

Pyne: I think everybody can put themselves in the shoes of other people as a Minister or as an employer, or whatever role they have in life. I mean I have my particular experiences in life and Julia has hers, and we all have our own experiences. I'm sure that Julia could easily put herself in the position of a teacher or a parent if she chose to do so rather than arrogantly dismissing the concerns of the Union and believing parents want to be strike breakers. They don't, but I wouldn't cast judgement on her experience as being any different to mine or anybody else I think that would be inappropriate.

Ends