Transcript - ABC News Radio - 20 June 2011

SUBJECTS: Carbon tax plebiscite

Marius Benson: Christopher Pyne, according to all reports the Opposition is planning to move on this plebiscite as soon as parliament sits today at 10 o'clock Canberra time this morning. Exactly what will you be doing?

Christopher Pyne: The Leader of the Opposition will be introducing a private members bill to require the Government to hold a plebiscite before it introduces a carbon tax. Obviously the Prime Minister said before the election there'd be no carbon tax under any government under which she led. And of course now we know she's trying to introduce a carbon tax. A plebiscite would give some legitimacy to the Prime Minister's actions to introduce a carbon tax. It's just short of holding an election before she introduces a carbon tax so we hope the cross benchers would support a move to seek the view of the people on such an important issue as the carbon tax given it's based on a lie, which is how they won the last election.

Benson: Now, you need different sorts of majorities for different sorts of votes in Parliament. How many cross benchers do need in addition to your own numbers for this?

Pyne: Only one. So we have 74 votes in the House of Representatives and we would need one cross bencher to support this measure, but we would hope we'd get all of the crossbenchers. I can't see why Robert Oakeshott or Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie or Adam Bandt will oppose a plebiscite of the people to seek their views on a carbon task. Given the election was won on the basis of a lie I would hope the crossbenchers would recognise giving the people a chance to have a say is very important because they voted falsely last year.

Benson: To have this plebiscite you'd have to go through the Upper House as well. How quickly would you expect that to happen because you're only 10 days away from the green having a majority in their own right in the Upper House or holding the balance of power?

Pyne: Well, there's two things to say about that. One of course is that the Senate can pass this private members bill this week if it chooses to, that's a matter for the Senate. Even if the Greens do have the balance of power after July the 1^st since the Greens believe so strongly what the public wants is action on climate change and a carbon tax why would they be fearful of a plebiscite to ask them their view?

Benson: Is a response to that, this is simply not the way legislation is dealt with in Australia. You don't have plebiscites no matter how important the legislation.

Pyne: Well, on the other side of the coin the Prime Minister won an election based on a lie. It think that's half the reason there is a hole in the heart of the Government because the public look at them, recognise they were duped in to voting for them last year. A plebiscite would at least give them some legitimacy for their carbon tax.

Benson: Can Labor equally argue that John Howard equally duped the electorate on his intentions on industrial relations legislation; introduced Work Choices. He certainly didn't introduce a plebiscite on that.

Pyne: There have been plebiscites over the years. There have been plebiscites....

Benson: Yeah, but John Howard didn't call one on that key piece of legislation. There have only been three over the years, two about conscription in World War One and about the choice of a national anthem.

Pyne: And this would be a good plebiscite to have now to give people a choice about whether they want to have a carbon tax and the Government shouldn't run from the public's views about whether there's a carbon tax.

Benson: But if you're such enthusiast for a plebiscite, why did, for example, John Howard not call it on controversial legislation when he introduced it?

Pyne: Well, perhaps that was a good idea, but the Government didn't do it and the Opposition didn't have the wits to suggest it.

Benson: Clearly any time you put up a question to an electorate; you ask them if they're in favour of a new tax, you ask them that question you're almost certain to get a no.

Pyne: Perhaps the Government should have thought about that before the lied before the election and said they'd never introduce a carbon tax.

Benson: Is this just a political exercise?

Pyne: It's an exercise in giving the public a say on whether they want a carbon tax, but more widely than that it's an exercise in giving the public a chance to tell the Government what they think about their broken promise.

Benson: Christopher Pyne thanks very much.

Pyne: It's a pleasure.

ENDS