Transcript - ABC 891 - Two Chrisses - 2 Nov 09

SUBJECTS: SA Treasurer Kevin Foley; ETS legislation amendments; Peter Costello's appointment to the Future Fund

(greetings omitted)

Matthew ABRAHAM: ...the comments continue to roll in about Kevin Foley, the quite controversial piece in the yesterday....weekend magazine, edited by (unclear).

David BEVAN: We've already had the impersonations...."I'm so lonely"...but I have to say, we're getting texts coming in and we won't read every one of them out because...we won't. I'm sure Kevin Foley, in the spirit of a robust political climate would try and....but these two are on different sides of the spectrum. One says Wayne Carey, front page, book. Ray Martin, Sixty Minutes, book. Kevin Foley, front page, not even a little black book. But another one says, a letter for Kevin. It's a very hard thing to deal with, especially for kids...in the meantime, hang in there, I think, is the message.

Christopher SCHACHT: I have to say, if you're going to talk about it...

BEVAN: ...we are.

SCHACHT: Then I have to say that the editor...I have dealt with him for over 20 years and think his appointment is quite a big plus for the Advertiser, a journalist of his background and if they give him the resources I'm sure that over time there'll be very useful stories written for the community.

ABRAHAM: Okay, so let's get political views on this. Chris Pyne, Chris Schacht, we'll get your views in a minute, and we saw this kind of thing in Cheryl Kernot, doing this sort of thing, we've seen Isobel Redmond in Hindley Street, in jeans and casual gear last week. In the Sunday Mail, whenever you see pollies in these sorts of touchy-feely interviews how do you think it's playing out? Chris Pyne, how do you think they're coming along here, from a Liberal perspective?

PYNE: I do my touchy-feely interview every Monday morning. Well there's one of two things happening here. This is a softening up story and by that I mean they are trying to soften the image of Kevin Foley. Trying to soften his image for the public. Either because there's going to be the old switcheroo between Foley and Rann at some point. Either before or after the election. Or that the polling shows that the image of Atkinson, Conlon and Foley is not working and with five months to the poll they've got to soften the image of at least one of them. We'll certainly know that's the case if we get something from Atkinson and Conlon. There are only two explanations for this and it is one of those two.

ABRAHAM: you wouldn't need one with Michael Atkinson or Pat Conlon. While they're there, Kevin Foley is numero uno for Parliamentary head-kicking. As the Treasurer...

BEVAN: But Michael Owen didn't do a piece on Michael Atkinson's job...that was some unauthorised piece.

SCHACHT: It was a very interesting piece by Michael Owen, so...he shouldn't be too objective.

ABRAHAM: Chris Schacht, do you think there's an old switcheroo in the pipeline? Is there a succession strategy? If not, should there be one?

SCHACHT: Well, if Mike Rann was to step down, Kevin Foley would naturally be the successor. He's Deputy Premier, second most senior person in the Government as the Treasurer. They've obviously at some stage decided but Mike Rann's made it clear that he intends on sticking around, even for the next four years if he's re-elected.

BEVAN: They always say that though, Chris Schacht...

SCHACHT: ...they always say that, but any politician from any political party. Labor or Liberal would remember Mike Rann's been the Leader since 1994. The longest serving Leader, Labor or Liberal. I'm coming to the point, there ought to be a sensible discussion about who would be the successor in the Labor Party. By and large we don't do very well at it, but we do better than the Liberals over the last number of years. Can't make up their minds...four Parliamentary Leaders in four years in South Australia. Close to a record, I think.

PYNE: Well Peter Beattie and Steve Bracks both went to elections saying they'd stay the entire term and were both gone within twelve months of the election.

SCHACHT: Well, you don't want to do what John Howard did to the Liberal Party, refuse to go full stop, despite you people having a civil war for all of the last year of his Prime Ministership. Extraordinary things happening to scenes taking placing at APEC meetings, meetings of the Cabinet Ministers, his wife telling him not to go, you're telling him he should to go...

PYNE: ...that's all ancient history, we're talking about the current situation with the State Labor Party...

SCHACHT: ...the Liberal Party have not been successful at this...there ought to be in any sensible political party, no matter who you are and how long you've been there, always some discussion about what would be the successor and if the bus ran over the Premier tomorrow, Kevin Foley would be the favourite to take the job if he wanted it. The article that appeared I think it's not unreasonable after you've been seven years.

PYNE: It's a lovely piece, you don't have to read it to know, it's a very nice piece about Kevin Foley. I've known Kevin Foley for years and I think probably about time they wrote a very nice piece about Kevin Foley, so good luck to him.

SCHACHT: And anytime you talk to Kevin, I talk to him because is kids play volleyball at high school, so that's a great thing for me but I just want to say that when you talk to Kevin at any question of his family, his kids etc comes up, like any normal father and I don't think that's unreasonable that people get a broader perspective than just what you see, argument in the forum in the Parliament, or in the media arguing over budget issues etc. So whether you're Labor or Liberal, just like Isobel had the big piece week before last, it's all reasonable and people get a better understanding of the personality and therefore may feel more comfortable of understanding the pressure that are on all politicians, Labor and Liberal.

ABRAHAM: Chris Schacht, when should Mike Rann go? You're not a serving MP, you're not in his cabinet, you've said there should be a succession strategy. You've said he's been leader of a Labor Party, he's been on the landscape for?

SCHACHT: Since 1994 he became Leader of the Labor Party, so he's had 15 years.

ABRAHAM: People will be voting at the next election, they haven't known anyone else to lead the Labor Party.

SCHACHT: That can be seen as a big advantage and that's why he's still rating in the opinion poll very well.

ABRAHAM: ...when would it be its time? Next term?

SCHACHT: When he himself has lost the enthusiasm or energy or thinks "this is it. I've done all the things I want to do", or secondly when the party and he discuss the fact that there is signs showing that the public are not willing. Are saying that they measures are whether he's still got he enthusiasm, whether he's still got the support in the public and he's maintained very good approval rating in all the public opinion polls published, so therefore why would you say to him, just because you've been there 15 years, go...

PYNE: ...the other alternative view of his piece might be that Kevin Foley is firing a shot across Mike Rann and saying we'll let you run to the election in March, but just understand that I'm changing my image because in the next term I'm expecting you to go and if you don't go, I'm expecting you to do something about it.

ABRAHAM: Well my understanding...in terms of Kevin Foley's leadership aspirations, Mike Rann's first election, which he was expected to get absolutely thumped and almost won. So '97 election campaign, on election night, as I understand it, the most surprised person that night was Kevin Foley and I think Kevin Foley was preparing, my information, he was preparing and the party was preparing to dump Mike Rann and Kevin Foley was going to be installed as Opposition Leader and just from me viewing it, there was to me a look of, on that night when they were interviewing Kevin Foley, didn't quite know what to say because he had not expected Mike Rann to do as well in that election in '97 as he did.

SCHACHT: ...if that's the case and I don't automatically accept that, he wasn't the only person who looked surprised on election night when Labor won a dozen seats and came within 3,000 or 4,000 votes of winning the election...

ABRAHAM: ...I think they were getting ready to dump Mike Rann though

SCHACHT: ...what had been said privately, a number of people had said to Rann inside the party organisation that we understand we've only got 11 members left ... this is going to take two elections to do it. Even though the result was much better in '97 than many expected, many people honestly said, well you can't expect someone to go from 11 seats to 24. And if he gets to 22...

BEVAN: ...but Mike Rann has said, he's on the record as saying, you know fast forward four and a half years later the 2002 election, the vote didn't shift in terms of the two party preferred at all, it was virtually the same and he thought if I can't pull off this deal with Peter Lewis and the people who were responsible as I understand it for pulling off that deal were Randall Ashbourne and Michael Atkinson. If they could get Lewis on side, my understanding was Mike Rann thought he was dead in the water.

SCHACHT: He would have then had two elections in a row and the Parliamentary party would have quite rightly suggested, we've lost two in a row, whatever the reason, d o we need to change the leader and that would have been a genuine debate, but we wouldn't have gone through what the Libs do, change them every six months.

PYNE: What Mike Rann needs to do is go out and make it clear what his intentions are in the next Parliament. This Kevin Foley piece puts the cat amongst the pigeons.

SCHACHT: Oh no it doesn't put the cat amongst the pigeons...

PYNE: ...what Mike Rann needs to do is make it clear and if Kevin Foley doesn't like what Mike Rann says, its up to him not to run at the election, I suppose...

SCHACHT: ...if Isobel Redmond doesn't win more than a couple of seats, will she be the leader of the Opposition after March next year? I reckon she's much more likely to be chopped up by the maniacs in the Liberal Party irrespective of the result unless she becomes Premier. So, the real question is, I think Isobel is in a much more dangerous position than Mike Rann will ever be for the foreseeable future.

Caller IAN: Chris Pyne, I'm concerned about the amendments going into the ETS and I'm not sure how they've going to address Climate Change for the benefit of your children and mine. Are they really just to help the polluters?

ABRAHAM: Are you in the same camp as Nick Minchin? If all your amendments get passed you may not support the legislation?

PYNE: No, Coalition's policy is that we are negotiating with about 6 minor amendments and 14 amendments to the Government's Emissions Trading Scheme. Ian McFarlane is in negotiations with Penny Wong. We're doing so in faith because there needs to be action on Climate Change. The current Bill as put forward by the Government in order to get the Double Dissolution trigger, is deeply flawed. It will support some jobs but we think the amendments we're pushing will be better for jobs, better for emissions. We're committed to those targets without costing Australia jobs. Not increasing the cost of items in the supermarket.

ABRAHAM: So what does Nick Minchin plan to do?

PYNE: Well Nick Minchin simply said the obvious, which is that we don't know what our position's going to be, finally, on the Emissions Trading Scheme, until we see how the negotiations...

BEVAN: ...what I heard him say was "even if all our amendments are accepted we may not support the Bill".

PYNE: Well he says he was selectively quoted by the journalists...

BEVAN: ...and furthermore, "we think the Bill will be defeated". It was a single sentence.

PYNE: Well far be it from me to put words in his mouth...I think what he was saying is that until negotiations are complete, it is a bit of a moot point. Negotiations appear to be going very well, we are negotiating in good faith and I think we'll get a good outcome. For the environment and the Australian economy.

ABRAHAM: Chris Schacht, on another topic, former Prime Minister Paul Keating has accused Kevin Rudd of disloyalty to Labor by appointing a, quote, policy bum, in Peter Costello in the Future Fund...

SCHACHT: ...I think I and a lot of other Labor people are not overly enthusiastic about appointing Mr Costello to a very important economic position.

PYNE: How Kevin Rudd could airbrush 11-and-a-half years out of the Howard Leadership and say nothing good ever came from it. Talk about the evil neo-Liberals and how he'll be different and then appoint the Treasurer for over 11-and-a-half years to a very important board position...I'm glad he got appointed but I think Kevin Rudd has got some explaining to do about how that's consistent...

BEVAN: Mike Rann has done this at a State level again and again and again. Brown has done it with John Olsen, for instance, Dean Brown's appointment to help manage the drought in the Lower Lakes. Doesn't the make it exceptionally hard for people like Pederick, Pengilly and Mitch Williams to argue against the Government water policy when the former Premier, Dean Brown is in there saying, oh no I think Mike Rann's doing a great job...

PYNE: ...I don't think so because if it was me and I just happened to disagree with Dean Brown's handling of the water at Langhorne Creek, for example...

BEVAN: ...you just said he's doing a great job.

PYNE: I think he is, but if I wanted to disagree with him, I wouldn't have any hesitation in saying so and I don't think Dean Brown would expect me to not say so just because he and I are very good friends...I think he'd take that in good spirit...

BEVAN: ...so you've endorsed Dean Brown and you think he's doing a great job, the (unclear) to that is that the Mike Rann Government is doing a good job...

PYNE: I'm not sure the Rann Government always takes good advice from people like Dean Brown. At the end of the day the buck stops with the Ministers as much as they'd like to push it off to someone else like Monsignor Cappo or Dean Brown.

BEVAN: Dean brown has endorsed this Government's water management. Where does that leave your party in trying to campaign on this key issue and now you've got Peter Costello saying I'm fine, I'm happy.

PYNE: Peter Costello is hopefully going to be able to save the Future Fund from the gnarled fingers of the Treasurer of Australia who'd like to get his hand on the money...

Caller KEN: Why did the Treasurer, in the best ten years that Australia is likely to have, not put money from the Future Fund into the ordinary Aged Pension to be like other countries that don't means test it?

PYNE: The Future Fund is not put aside for the pollies superannuation, as some like to think. The Future Fund's money is put aside for all superannuation for the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Commonwealth Public Service, probably the ABC, I don't know...I hope so! When we did the Future Generations Report, it was very clear we had going forward an enormous liability for payments and if we didn't do something while the times were good, that would be a problem in the future...

(ends)