Transcript - ABC 891 - Two Chrisses - 16 Nov 09

SUBJECTS:SA State election; comments from ABC's Lateline program; asylum seekers; ETS; Bradfield by-election

(greetings omitted)

David BEVAN: ...are the workers going to revolt at the next State election? It was speculated in the Sunday mail on the weekend that maybe there'll be some Independents that will get up and give some safe Labor seats a kick in the pants. In the Spin Cycle on Friday Greg Kelton said "nah, they're too safe to create any dramas"" but aren't safe seats the ones vulnerable to challenges?

Christopher SCHACHT: Well I'm one to always welcome the challenge to a safe seat. Usually the other party that doesn't hold a seat...but the Independent will usually come around in the thirties and the other major campaigner will come behind in the twenties. Then the major Party, that holds the seat, will get about 45% and then it can be won. It's hard but it's happened enough times in South Australia and both Parties need to be hard about it. Now I saw the speculation in The Australian on Sunday and about the seats in Western Metro etcetera and about how there's some issues down there and I have no knowledge on whether those issues are big enough to create vote-shifting to an Independent but certainly there's been some issues that I'm suer the Labor Party will take and be careful of. You don't want a local issue to get out of control. The other thing I just want to say is the Labor Party will be able to show that over the last 8 years there have been, you know, some major infrastructure spending in the western suburbs and there's gonna be more so they can't say they've been neglecting just because they're safe Labor seats.

BEVAN: Now, that's the problem!

SCHACHT: Well what I'm saying...in the broader western suburbs the Government will be able to show that they've got significant infrastructure skills and spending. I'm sure they will. But all I know in my experience is, and I've had Independent candidates winning a couple of seats when I was State Secretary ...one of them was Martin Evans and he was the state Member for Elizabeth.

Matthew ABRAHAM: So you failed?

SCHACHT: No, on that one it was a disagreement about the selection of the Labor candidate...he won the seat as an Independent and then rejoined the Labor Party. I just know that if I was Labor or Liberal and if the Liberals ever got into power, literally. Liberals sitting in safe Liberal seats, you can't take it lightly and if you do...

David BEVAN: Chris Pyne?

Christopher PYNE: Well the western suburbs are a bubbly, smoky cesspool of discontent against the Labor Party and as you can see going back to the Cheltenham Racecourse debacle and the St Clair land swap issue, it's the latest issue that's obviously been taken advantage of by local, grassroots politicians. I have a few contacts in politics in the western suburbs and they tell me that there is a very angry Labor Party grassroots membership. There was also, as we've discussed on this program, the issue of the Colac hotel. The debate about the trustees of that. The money associated with that. The Port Adelaide FEC...have been in revolt so it's quite a cesspool and I think that...

BEVAN: ...do you think it's fair to use the term 'cesspool'? Don't you as the Liberal Party have to worry about Independents?

PYNE: Well right now we're peering into the Labor party cesspool and it's not very attractive in sight. What I think we will see is a number of Independents in Labor suburbs seats and it would not surprise me if one or two of them got up. As Chris Schacht says, in a safe Labor seat or safe Liberal seat those are the only circumstances in which an Independent can win. If they can latch on with a local issue as I think we have seen in the Mayo by-election. One of the candidates latched onto the issue with the Lower Lakes and did that well above the expectations. Voters like to vote for a local candidate who's standing up for them on a local issue.

ABRAHAM: Let's go to jack in West Croydon.

Caller JACK: It's a cesspool here in West Croydon. I just want to talk about this matter...Christopher Pyne's certainly right. There is a movement against the sitting Labor Council, the Charles Sturt Council...members of that Council are Labor Party members and they've made this horrible decision around St Clair reserve...park in the Western suburbs to exchange in terms...of heatlh and safety. But it's not helped when I see...the Labor Party cause wasn't helped when I see Stateline on ABC on Friday night, Minister Weatherill, the Minister for Cheltenham, saying that the residents don't understand the issue. I've lived in this area a lot longer than he has and to understand a reserve there...in an iconic reserved area and the open space. By that same token the area is like that...I had a discussion with Michael Atkinson in the 39degree heat that was outside...he was letterboxing and I happened to be coming back from the shopping centre and again, he was on Stateline as well on the Friday night so I said ""Michael, I think you're up against it this time. There's a group of people moving and on Monday the 23^rd when the Council meets again, I think there'll be another 200-300 people protesting the Council's decision on this one"".

ABRAHAM: Jack, thank you...and I'm glad Jack mentions West Croydon. Attorney-General Michael Atkinson was not, as I put it, doorknocking at midnight in his electorate last week...he says that as well. He was letterboxing.

PYNE: I've letterboxed at 2am in my suit during State and Federal campaigns. Coming back from functions...so I think that Michael Atkinson and I fully well understand the power of the voter.

ABRAHAM: OK, well if you'll let me complete my sentence.

PYNE: Sorry.

ABRAHAM: Michael Atkinson was letterboxing until midnight, not doorknocking. That would be ridiculous!

SCHACHT: Let's give Atkinson credit here as even though he's in a very safe Labor seat...since '89 he's been a member of a very safe Labor seat but he's always doorknocked, he's always gone out and campaigned. I'm just saying there are other members who are...

ABRAHAM: ...Christopher Pyne, are you still interrupting Chris Schacht? This is an historic day! An historic moment...

SCHACHT: ...in his defence, it's not just this issue. He's consistently doorknocked and been at the grassroots of his electorate irrespective of whether you think he's good, bad, or ugly. I just recognize the facts....

ABRAHAM: ...Chris Pyne, Nick Minchin was on Four Corners, expressing his views about emissions trading and then somebody, an unnamed Liberal called him a fruit loop. Was that you?

PYNE: No.

SCHACHT: Really.

PYNE: I said no, and I said so on Lateline on Thursday night and Nick Minchin and I have been involved in politics together for probably over 20 years and we have an extremely respectful, professional relationship, I admire and respect his political judgement and I think he does mine, and we usually find ourselves on the same side of most debates here in Canberra about politics. We don't always agree on policy and neither would you expect us to, this is what Australia is a democracy after all, and it's not North Korea, people are perfectly entitled to have different views, but no, I would never describe him in those terms, I'm sure he would not describe me in this terms either.

SCHACHT:...I saw that Four Corners program last Monday night, and I was astonished at - I expected Wilson Tuckey to make the comments that he did and some other backbenchers. But when the Number three person in Parliamentary Liberal Party in Canberra, Senator Nick Minchin, Leader of the Senate, says quite openly that a majority of the Partyroom will not support an ETS Scheme and are against it, and don't believe in climate change is made-made induced, and the way some of them said it, they would seem to me they would rather lose the election on this issue if there was one called or whenever it is in the next 12 months. Nick Minchin, who I have a lot of respect for as an opponent in politics reminded me of Bill Hartley and the mad Labor Left in Victoria in the 60's, who were quite happy to lose election after election and then claim purity on everything, and as a result they stopped Labor winning the 61 election, the 69 election because of those maniacs in Victoria.....the thing is as Gough Whitlam said - only the impotent are pure. You've got to win to implement a range of policies, and I'm not surprised that a senior member of the Liberal Party said what he said and I'm not surprised another unnamed Liberal called him a fruit loop.

BEVAN: If the Government has now agreed to exclude agriculture from an Emissions Trading Scheme at the request of the Opposition - doesn't the Opposition basically have to come to the party and be prepared to compromise as well now?

PYNE: Well, there are a range of amendments that are the subject of negotiation with the Government. Just to give you another example - the Opposition's proposing a new certificate called a white certificate which would give households and businesses and credits for carbon emissions they have saved which is not currently in the legislation, so it's a voluntary action on the part of individuals in their own homes, in their own businesses that save carbon emissions. They would be granted a white certificate and that might entitle them to credits and rewards. There are a range of amendments that we are proposing. Removing agriculture and providing offsets for things like forestry and soil carbon capture etc was part of that, it is a good concession on the part of the Government but the negotiations continue and Ian MacFarlane and Penny Wong are having I think regular meetings this week to finally nut out how we might be able to go forward.

BEVAN: Joy has joined the Two Chrisses. Good morning, Joy.

Caller JOY: Good morning boys. I've lived in a safe Labor seat all of my life and I'm 77. All my life I've lived in safe seats. Doesn't give me much option, does it? In the past 55 years, no member whether State or Federal has done anything personally about contacting me. I can go chat on a street corner but I thought they were out there...they should be coming to us!

BEVAN: How will you vote next State election, Joy?

JOY: Well that depends on the candidate. I will not vote Labor on principal...I'm a Swinger. The only indication of an election where I live is the decorated telegraph poles!

ABRAHAM: Sue in Stirling, you have a question for Chris Pyne I believe?

Caller SUE: I'm like that lady, when I was 18 I voted for Gough Whitlam then voted Liberal and Labor...what I want to know is why no reporter has asked Mr Rudd what it is costing the taxpayer for having a ship out there with people not getting off of it. Cost of changing staff in Indonesian waters. They wouldn't be sitting there for free! Not one person has asked ""what is this costing Australia?"". It is inhumane, I feel sorry for those people coming all that way to be treated like that what is it costing me?

PYNE: Well it's an extremely good question and I think that Sue might find that those questions will be asked now Parliament is sitting again by the Opposition this week. Now you might want to remember the Oceanic Viking was holding 78 asylum seekers during the last Parliament then we had a break for two weeks and now we've started up again but the Oceanic Viking is still holding those asylum seekers. The Prime Minister said he was going to be hard line and tough and make no apology for them. Well I'm glad he didn't because he didn't need to apologize. I think most of the Australian public realise the Emperor has no clothes on this issue.

SCHACHT: The Howard Pacific Solution in the early part of this decade cost what I have heard to be close to $1billion of taxpayer's money...it is very expensive even John Howard who was very hard line...it cost him close to $1billion for the to implement this policy.

PYNE: What Sue might want to know too is that the Oceanic Viking is usually patrolling the southern Indian Ocean stopping pirates from removing Patagonian Toothfish and protecting our interests in the Southern Ocean so while the Oceanic Viking is not patrolling northern waters for asylum seekers it is then not doing what it usually does and what it is contracted to do which is protect our interests in the Southern Ocean.

ABRAHAM: Julie from Daw Park. Julie?

Caller JULIE: Hi everyone. Sorry, to go back to the St Clair issue...it's just one more sign of the Labor Government walking all over us. You take Cheltenham, you take the water situation. There is no way I would ever vote Labor...I did in the last election, two elections...until then I had always voted Liberal. This time I will not vote Labor, I have great hopes for Isobel Redmond but there's not much coming out of there, either. I would vote Independent or Green if someone gets up that I think can make a difference. Could be the first time I put in a blank piece of paper. I think I will give it to Liberal...just in the last term they've walked all over what people want!

SCHACHT: Well that's a Liberal vote then.

BEVAN: that would send a shiver through any State secretary's spine because although the polls don't' show that, if there are enough you may get a swing in the last few weeks.

SCHACHT: I've always said that from 2006, which is the best two-party preferred result Labor's ever had in the last hundred years, that we would lose some seats. I find it hard to believe we would hold every vote that we got last time. However, the Liberal's have a problem, she wasn't overly enthusiastic about Isobel Redmond. That's the problem Isobel's got, she's only got a few months to make her mark. Secondly, the employment last week...unemployment showed that South Australia was doing very well...

ABRAHAM: Chris Pyne?

PYNE: I think that Julie's encapsulated a lot of what people are thinking. If Liberal can present a genuine alternative that people can have confidence in , given that State elections can swing around as much as they have. Christopher Schacht and I, you and David too would know that on election nights there can be swings of upwards of 10%. The Glenside Hospital is another very good example. Since 1836, that land has been kept for open space. Now the Government is selling it for housing in the eastern suburbs. It's shocking...and another example of the arrogance of this Labor Government.

ABRAHAM: I wonder if this could happen here. A new tactic I think being run by one of the Parties in Victoria, they're running 12 candidates all from the same Party.

SCHACHT: It's New South Wales and the seat of Bradfield, the marginal seat Nelson held. The Christian Democrats, Fred Niles, is running about 9 candidates. They're going to lose their deposit. It will be interesting to see if they all get 10 votes each, or 15 or 20. I can't, for the life of me, understand what the real tactic is. In an urban area like Bradfield, you've got 12 anonymous people who've got no personal following. In regional rural seats if you ran three different candidates who were already well known there might be some lovig. I really can't see, I'd really like to have Fred explain why they're going to make a donation of the Electoral Office through loss of deposit on a dozen candidates!

(ends)