Transcript - ABC 891 – Two Chrisses - 15 June 2009
13 Jul 2009
Transcipt
Abraham:
Chris Schacht and Christopher Pyne good morning.
Bevan:
There are a few things I want to ask you about, one I heard on the early AM program this morning the Business Council were asking for the Government to consider putting up the GST and we should have a cut in the corporate tax rate and also I want to ask you both about the poll that was in the Sunday Mail looking at the State seat of Cheltenham and Port Adelaide because there's been lots of speculation over the last year or so that independents might be able to get up in those seats because they're very safe Labor Seats, but it's often the safe seats that are the most vulnerable to an independent
Abraham:
Before we do that, Adelaide Oval I was shocked to see they've knocked the stand down, the historic stand and have left the arches there. Are those arches heritage listed?
Schacht:
I am a member of the South Australian Cricket Association and I went, the middle of last year, to a meeting of members. About 60 - 70 of us turned up where Ian McLachlan, Chairman, could brief us on the design of the new stand. Then the architect they'd employed got up and said he'd followed the advice of the committee and members what they wanted in building the new stand he said everybody wanted the arches left then he said because members wanted to be able to promenade before and after the match and at half time. I kid you not, I nearly fell off the chair. He then showed a photo from the 1890s with people in top hats promenading so we're deciding a stand for the 21st Century, based on what people like in 1900, when Clem Hill was opening the batting. It says everything about the Adelaide disease about how we don't really work out what is important and what is not the arches. You could rebuild them with new bricks or those bricks, but to leave them like that I want a 21st Century stand this stand is costing $90m.
Pyne:
I don't agree with C1 to be honest. I think one of the good things about Adelaide is that we have managed to develop new buildings throughout the 80s and 90s while maintaining often heritage facades. There's heritage facades that have been retained in Pirie Street in front of modern buildings. I think Adelaidians quite pride themselves in the fact that they have managed after a couple of spectacular examples in the 60s of old magnificent buildings being knocked over to keep their heritage when you speak to people who come from interstate about ... Adelaide architecture they do say how lucky you've been in Adelaide to maintain most of your heritage buildings while also building new modern office towers and other kinds of buildings ... I don't see any reason why, if it's cost effective for them to keep the arches so C1 can have a bit of a promenade along there.
Abraham:
No, I don't think he wants to have a promenade does he?
Schacht:
I want to go to a decent oval ... in the 21st Century.
Pyne:
I don't see any reason at all why you can't keep the arches and build the a stadium around those arches ... it's part of Adelaide's history and I think that's a good thing ...
Bevan:
... is there anything left of Adelaide Oval of heritage value, or is it all being knocked down?
Schacht:
the arches will be left, whatever that means ... and the scoreboard, the scoreboard that's been there for a hundred years ...
Pyne:
The scoreboard is really very iconic ...
Schacht:
It's useless ... you can't read it from the other end of the oval unless you've got binoculars or very good glasses ... if you want to have the World Cup Soccer, if we're lucky enough to win it, the World Cup Soccer, we're going to have $90 million spent on the Adelaide Oval and it will still only be a marginally upgraded cricket oval of which $90 million has been spent for 5,000 extra seats, mainly for the members. In the outer there will still be people sitting on wet grass out in the open ... will FIFA say is this up to standard? No.
Caller Mike:
Heritage can be pretty flexible ... the Vic Richardson gates at the Adelaide Oval, when they were made of black steel they were heritage listed. They've actually been moved and rebuilt to a different design out of different material, but they're still heritage listed.
Schacht:
You've got it in one ... my point.
Abraham:
The broader issue here is a fair bit of State Government taxpayers money has gone to SACA. $50 million ... we were having a debate this morning about the Magill Training Centre and there's no money in the budget for that.
Schacht:
25 million Federal, 25 million State ...
Abraham:
John Kenneally this morning was talking to Ben Hook from 'The Advertiser' ... it was bitterly cold last night and you still down at Footy Park have people sitting out, a lot of the seats are out with no cover at all ... and they wonder why you have trouble getting people to go to the footy sometimes ...)
Schacht:
I would rather 90 million be spent to completely build a new Adelaide Oval with a roof that is used for both cricket, football, soccer, rugby and other major events, then it can be economically funded, it won't require much State or Federal money if at all.
Bevan:
Would you get a roof for 90 million?
Schacht:
No it would cost several hundred million, but when you put all the sports in it all year around you could then look at whether it's economically viable.
Bevan:
I thought you just said you'd rather they spend 90 million
Schacht:
No, I'd rather the 90 million be spent as a beginning on putting a new stadium in with a roof. Mr McLachlan has announced that after this 90 million, when they get the stadium up to 38,000 or something, they'll want more money to take it to 50,000 and knock a bit more of it down ... it's piece meal and we still will not end up with a 21st century stadium. [commercial break]
Bevan:
'The Sunday Mail' did a poll of two State Seats and they're very safe Labor Seats: Port Adelaide, which is held by the Treasurer, Kevin Foley, and Cheltenham, held by his colleague in the Cabinet, Jay Weatherill. On a two Party preferred basis, according to this poll, the ALP would achieve 67% of the vote in Port Adelaide and the Liberals 22. Cheltenham is even better for Labor, they would achieve 70% of the two Party preferred vote and the Liberals 30% ... the poll tried to burrow down into local issues to see whether or not there's scope there for an independent to make up some ground. For instance, in Cheltenham, the big issue ... would appear to be the Cheltenham Racecourse, and in Port Adelaide the issue they chose to focus on ... is the Diver Derek Bridge ... the impression that you get from this poll is that those two issues aren't going to be enough to sway an independent ... what did you make of these polls?
Pyne:
I thought the polls are very interesting on two levels ... they did actually show a swing of between about six and seven percent against the State Labor Party in those two seats ... for Martin Hamilton-Smith to win and for a real stadium to be built in Adelaide on North Terrace, which is apparently C1's fervent desire, means people would have to vote Liberal at the State Election. They need 6.8% ... a six to seven percent swing in those two Labor Seats I thought was rather interesting. If you were thinking about being an independent it would give you some heart because it was a funny old poll to do, when you didn't actually have the name of an independent to put into the poll. If they'd had for example ... Rod Sawford's name as an independent candidate ... or a popular local Mayor, it could quite potentially have been quite a different poll, but if you were an independent eyeing off one of those Seats you would recognise that you'd be likely to bet the Liberal Party in either of those Seats, and if you could get Labor down to below 50% plus one you would get elected with the Liberal Party's preferences because it's so safe.
Abraham:
Chris Schacht, do you agree with Chris Pyne ... that doing a poll without a name ... the independent factor so much revolves around who it is and whether they're being endorsed by Nick Xenophon ... that's worth a good 15% ... without that
Schacht:
It's only, at the very best, a mild indication. The figures overall show that Labor has still got a fair margin in these Seats. There's been a bit of a swing against the Government, as Chris said. I think at this time of the year ... it's inconsequential to argue to take Port Adelaide to extrapolate it to Norwood. We get Statewide polls and everything I think are more accurate for the Statewide result. The thing that every major Party now has to watch is what happened up in Frome in that by-election. An independent stood, came second after a close preference count with the Labor Party. Labor came third and Labor got the person easily elected ... but all the minor Parties went against the Liberal Party ... in any safe Labor or Liberal Seat ... when the sitting Party ... 55, 60, 62%, can an independent take a great whack of votes, 10 or 15 or 20% off the sitting Labor member or sitting Party ... and therefore as Chris Pyne, you agree with him, you drop the vote. You'd have to drop it to about 40 to 42% at the most ... on that then the preference lays ... as long as that independent is standing with the Liberal after all the others have been eliminated ... it is a waring sign to both Parties. What happened in Frome could happen in any safe Labor State if the circumstances are right.
Bevan:
But you're saying that the primary vote for, let's take the Seat of Port Adelaide, according to this poll Kevin Foley has a primary vote of 51% ... what you're saying is his primary vote would have to get down to the low 40s
Schacht:
Very low 40s to be at risk.
Pyne:
Which would be very conceivable if there was an independent. You would expect a fair whack of that 51% to go across to the independent, especially if they were a former Labor Party member ...
Schacht:
I think you should stop speculating about Rod Sawford
Pyne:
I didn't say that I just said a former Labor Party Member not Parliamentary Party they've gotta have credibility and they've gotta have Labor credibility
Bevan:
How do the both major Parties view Nick Xenophon? If Xenophon came out and endorsed a high profile independent, what would that mean in terms of percentage of votes?
Pyne:
Well Nick Xenophon is in the luxurious position of being able to have whatever position he wants on any issue
Bevan:
What I'm asking you is what's his percentage worth ... just being cold hearted about this ... what does Xenophon bring to the table?
Pyne:
An endorsement from Nick Xenophon would be a very substantial endorsement. It would have a big impact ... the best example I could give would probably be the Mayo by-election where one candidate, who was utterly unknown, went from utterly unknown to 16% largely on the back of a Nick Xenophon endorsement.
Abraham:
That's Di Bell.
Pyne:
I'm not saying he's worth 16%, but she went from being utterly unknown outside probably her own neighbourhood to a person who pulled a lot of votes ...
Schacht:
The big issue here is it's almost irrelevant to do these surveys until you know if there is going to be a credible independent candidate running in a safe Labor or safe Liberal Seat ...
Bevan:
If you use this as a base and then once you know who the candidate is, do the poll again, it'd be interesting to see the impact.
Schacht:
But you'd also want to be much closer to the election ... the Mayor of Port Pirie, who won Frome, no one had given him a thought, as I understand it ... after the bi-election was called he enters the field and in a short time he gets elected ... I think you've gotta be very cautious about extrapolating too much, but I just say generally all the time the two major Parties can never be too relaxed about what happens in a Seat where there is a local issue with a good independent.
Pyne:
I was going to predict that there will be independents running well beyond the Port Adelaide area.
Caller Phil:
A lot of the England ovals have changed dramatically ... maybe this is something Adelaide should do ... if they're gonna stay in the world spotlight as far as cricket and international sport is concerned they've gotta do something with that oval ... it still looks like it did 20 odd years ago ...
Schacht:
I don't believe in a new oval over the railway yards ... it's gotta be all sports together in the Adelaide Oval site with a brand new stadium built from scratch.
Caller Roy:
When you're talking about voting Nick Xenophon you've gotta realise that a lot of the old aged pensioners were obsessed on him taking away a portion of their rise to give to the ... cattle barons ... so there's gonna be a big shift of votes taken away from this Xenophon guy ... I'm one of them ... there's a lot of old aged pensions ... that do go to the pokies for a night out ... he's taking that away from them ... because he's taken that away from them ... the public has had to put a cheap meal up for the old aged pensioners ... he's gotta look out for himself ... there's gonna be a backwash upon him ... things are changing quickly
Bevan:
GST ... business wants the Federal Government and the States to put up the GST ... and cut the corporate tax rate, is that ever gonna happen ...?
Schacht:
The Business Council's saying they want a corporate rate down to 10% or something.
Bevan:
I think it was 15
Schacht:
15 and the GST goes up ... if there is an economist ... there's a few that they've probably got paid off that can recommend that ... can you imagine any Labor or Liberal Party going to the electorate saying I want you to vote for us, we're gonna cut the corporate rate to 15 and jack up the GST on you at the same time ... I think you'd be asking for a bit of political damage to say the least. I don't think it'll happen. I think both sides have agreed that it's gonna be stuck at 10% ... the Federal Government does have the power by putting a Bill through Parliament to change the rate up or down if it wants to ...
Bevan:
So it can bypass the States if it wants to?
Schacht:
The law is quite clear. You just amend the Budget Bill by one line and you can change, at the Federal level, no matter what the States say, you can amend the GST rate. That was all a myth of Howard saying the States have to agree. That's what he said. In the Bill, it's one line in the Bill, in the Federal Budget Bill. The GST can be amended in any direction if the Federal Parliament will carry it, and I don't think anyone's gonna put it up.
Pyne:
The Coalition is entirely opposed to increasing the GST from 10%. The Government of course, the Labor Party, is in power. They have unfortunately put themselves in the position where they have a $57 billion deficit, a $315 billion debt and they may well decide to return to that issue of the GST because they want more revenue. They're a Labor Government and they want to spend more money, but they've already borrowed almost as much as you can imagine they would borrow, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they're flying a kite through one of their organisations in the business community. They've all been saying very supportive things of the Labor Party. They're fearful of recrimination.
Abraham:
Speaking of things being tough on the Liberal Party, what did you think of Graham Ingerson as Party Treasurer ... it was seen us upstaging or embarrassing Martin Hamilton-Smith by saying the Party's broke, you've all gotta dip into your pockets ... we need a lot of money to run the next election campaign.
Pyne:
Well he didn't say that. He said that we were announcing a new measure to raise money amongst the business community and it was interpreted by the media as saying the Party was broke and need to raise money, but that's not the situation. He was simply announcing a new method of raising money from small donations across the business community. It's true that Labor has vastly more funds at their disposal than the Liberal Party. They are in Government and both the union movement and the business community are giving them money. We don't get any money from the union movement. The business community, which used to be our base, give either equally to both or give to the Labor Party now and not the Liberal Party because they are in Government ...
Bevan:
It did undercut Martin Hamilton-Smith's budget message ... Graham Ingerson could have chosen a better time to say ... we're broke.
Schacht:
Why didn't he go to the State Council of the Liberal Party in front of all the Liberal Members ...
Pyne:
He didn't say we were broke
Schacht:
He should have said it at the State Council Meeting of the Liberal Party, because that's where you're trying to raise the money from. Not in front of a whole range of business people and media who many of them don't support the Liberal Party.
Pyne:
I think the take-out of the State Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith's speech was that he challenged Mike Rann to three debates ... in the election campaign and I bet your bottom dollar that Mike Rann runs from the contest.
ENDS