Transcript - ABC 891 - Two Chrisses - 12 Oct 09

SUBJECTS: Conduct for real estate agents; home schooling; Emissions Trading Scheme; Centrelink; Nobel Peace Prize

(greetings omitted)

David Bevan: What we're asking this morning is, is there a code of ethics regarding real estate?

Christopher Schacht: A very...important industry. So a code of ethics...

Bevan: Well in our street we...several neighbours noticed a real estate agent just having a good old look around and at one point actually walked around into somebody else's back yard and had a poke around!

Christopher Pyne: That's taking things a bit far, isn't it...?

Bevan: So we will be discussing this with the Real Estate Institute. Is there a Code of Conduct for these people and what can you do about it?

Matthew Abraham: Now, a texter. "Thanks for a totally biased view on home schooling, Matt and Dave. Come on you home schoolers, set these guys right!" Well we didn't have a view on home schooling, we asked questions on the standards that apply. We were following up on concerns raised by a listener but we'd love to hear from you on the Soap Box if you're a home schooler. But Chris Schacht, you expressed surprise, and we did too, that there's some 800 children being home schooled, four-hundred-and-fifty families...a large amount being home schooled. Like there's Super Schools, there's Super Home Schools.

Schacht: Well when I was listening to you this morning, I could see that topic and I could see that it's a significant issue and in the public education system. Well it could save money but...

Bevan: ...if you had an 800-student school you'd need about 40 teachers...

Pyne: But I guess you've got to ask the reason why people are home schooling. There would be a cost issue. I know a family of 6 boys. No girls, six boys...all of whom were home schooled because the mother and father decided...and one of them was a teacher to start with. The mother and father decided it would be a lot cheaper if they home schooled them thank to put them into private school or even a public school. So cost, religious reasons...they're the reasons why people home school and maybe people...there are some people who've lost faith in the Education System in general who can't afford a private school.

Schacht: I'd like to comment that, when your listener rang in, pointed out it was the isolation-related. Not being in a school, mixing with kids their own age...the social usual thing...will they be interested in boys and girls...the opposite sex etcetera. But I think there was a fair point about social development.

Pyne: I think it's an issue from a sporting point of view. The only think I said to the people I know who were home schooled...

Bevan: ...six boys! That's a football team!

Schacht: No, that's a volleyball team! Six boys...that is a male, indoor volleyball team.

Pyne: My only concern was how they played sport. Because they'd want to be playing sport and they said we'll join the football team, the local football team, the local district rather than...

Bevan: ...well sometimes that's better than the school team because you have ongoing connections. You can have ongoing connections as opposed to school teams.

Pyne: Well our boys play for the Hills Football League, even though we live in Tusmore, because one of their best friends plays in the Hills Football League and they have a whole league of friends in the Hills Football League that they wouldn't have if they just played for St Ignatius...

Bevan: ...Pynes in the hills!

Pyne: Well we don't live in the hills, we live in my electorate. They have another connection through playing for a local league rather than just playing for the school. Now they'll play for the school too but...

Schacht: ...well the only thing I'd ask...when they've finished their home schooling, going into secondary. How many of them apply to go to a tertiary level?

Schacht: How do they do in exams and...

Abraham: ...there's no statistics on it...

Pyne: Well I'd be very interested to see how they do. What their averages are in comparison to others. I'd imagine they're very good because they're probably getting very intensive education.

Schacht: It's the same public examination.

Bevan: Desmond rang in, and was home schooled and said "we have got so much time. An enormous amount of time...because so much time in school is wasted. Just in behavioral management. But if you've got maybe two, three, four in your class, you'd get through the curriculum in two or maybe three hours. They've got time on their hands.

Pyne: Well if you were one of thirty in a class you'd...

Schacht: ...it's not a case of if you're home all day doing nothing.

Pyne: If you're one in thirty, of course, doing year 11 or 12, if you're being home schooled you're doing one-on-one!  You know you're getting intensive education from someone who is home schooling you. You could actually be doing better than many others.

Bevan: You're saying that there might be legitimate reasons why people do that. There might be very good results but the State has a responsibility to make sure this is properly monitored. For all kids...

Pyne: I think that as long as they're getting some social discourse, they will be fine. That's a key factor. But the six boys I knew who were home schooled were perfectly normal.

Abraham: Now Christopher Pyne, Chris Schacht. Chris Pyne, you two agree on something...that the next Federal election it's unlikely that the Liberal Party will lose any more seats. In South Australia you might say "well, they can't afford to" but Malcolm Turnbull's in town popping up at the Fruchocs factory, popping up in marginal seats...

Pyne: ...the St Paul's College in Gilles Plains...

Abraham: ...so you're worried. You're in a 1100...

Pyne: 1711.

Abraham: A 1711 vote margin.

Schacht: 900 have to change.

Abraham: 900 votes have to change. Alright, so the way the polls are, you could say you could lose your seat at the next Federal election.

Pyne: Well we were basically saying off-air is that the polls at the moment, Federally, are pretty dire for the Liberal Party. But we were not in a dissimilar position in '84...'83, '84 when we were in Opposition after some period of Government. But, of course, the actual results on election day and when the starter gun is fired in the election, is when people really start to focus on how they vote. I think that polls become a very short term popularity contest as opposed to "that's definitely how I'm going to vote on election day" so what we were saying is that you shouldn't rely on the way the polls are now to predict the next election. I'm not in the least bit complacent as you may point out.

Schacht: If you just, by the way of trivia, in the change of Government in the elections of '49, '72, '75, '82, '83. In the following election after a Government had changed only Malcolm Fraser in '77 maintained the same majority or got a slight increase. The Opposition after the Government had changed from the previous election reduced the majority...

Abraham: ...since 1977?

Pyne: It's actually very stark. In every single change of Government since the war, in the election following it the Opposition has actually made up ground.

Schacht: ...except for '77.

Bevan: But Chris Schacht, you'd have to say that Kevin Rudd has taken the Labor Party to unchartered territory in terms of his popularity.

Schacht: In '83/84 Hawke was in the same margins in the opinion polls of popularity, Andrew Peacock was down I the cellar. Every opinion poll published put Labor as winning the next election, to increase its majority by 15, 30 seats...Labor's majority was reduced from about 25 seats to about 15. That was a stunning result compared with what people expected. All I'm saying in South Australia, the demography of the two most marginal seats, Chris's seat Sturt and Boothby in the metropolitan area, are both...would just be a remarkable result if we won wither of them in the next Federal Election.

Pyne: I think the point is it's a generalisation about what we've generally talked about.

Abraham: Mind you, you were pretty relieved no doubt that Mia Handshin is no longer going to be contesting the Seat again.

Pyne: Well as you know I tend not to comment on my opponent.

Abraham: Well she's not your opponent anymore.

Pyne: Or even a former opponent.

Abraham: So you can utter her name.

Pyne: Mia Handshin was a formidable candidate, but so was Tony Barca who was the Candidate in the election before that, who Labor, I think, probably should have chosen again to run a second time. He was the candidate in 2004, and he was a very formidable candidate. I never take my opponents for granted, I always fight right down to the wire.

Schacht: See, Geoff Roach in the paper yesterday said that the Labor Party may have approached Natasha Stott-Despoja to run in Sturt. I haven't heard that at all.

Abraham: That'd set the cat among the pigeons!

Schacht: Now what have you done in the last 24 hours since you read that, apart from get on the phone, ring desperately, threaten, smear, kill, etcetera.

Pyne: Only because we've now known each other for so long I wouldn't sue you for making an outrageous allegation because I know it's meant in the spirit of friendship. Yes, I read that piece on Saturday morning in The Advertiser, but Ian Smith and Natasha are actually quite friendly with Carolyn and I, so I would have been extremely surprised if that was the case and while I haven't spoken to Ian or Natasha, I understand that that's not the case, she's not planning on running for Sturt.

Schacht: It'd be interesting having Ian Smith as her campaign director.

Pyne: Some people say he's a Liberal. I think that's a matter for him to announce, whether he's a Liberal...you might want to ask him. Natasha is a fantastic person and would make a very formidable candidate.

Abraham: You'd really not want to be running against her.

Pyne: My sense is that, you know, the reason she retired from the Senate are the same. She's very happy with Conrad and Cordelia and that was part of the plan and it's terrific and my understanding is that that's not actually an accurate story.

Abraham: Christopher Pyne, can you please once and for all state the Party position on an Emissions Trading Scheme? It depends on who you talk to! Mr Turnbull has one view and the West Australian Liberals have another...

Pyne: ...my view and the Leader's view are the same view...my view and Malcolm's view and the Party policy is that we took an Emissions Trading Scheme to the last election, we began the legislation for an Emissions Trading Scheme. Introduced it into Parliament and it passed. Therefore we support an Emissions Trading Scheme. There's a very important conference in Copenhagen in December and the United States is currently settling what it will do for an Emissions Trading Scheme so our preferred outcome is that the Government bring legislation into the Parliament early next year, after Copenhagen, and after the United States...

Abraham: ...but the Government don't want to do that...

Pyne: ...that's where you have the issue. That's our preferred position however we don't control the timetable of the Parliament because as well...this might surprise some people but we're not in Government, we're in Opposition. So we don't actually control what the Government does. Therefore they will bring their legislation to Parliament, which will obviously be a very cynical act to try and get a Double Dissolution trigger. The Leader will take amendments to the Party Room on Sunday which, I believe, will be adopted by the Party. We'll move those amendments to the legislation and when the vote is going to be on the legislation will be a matter for the Government bringing that vote on.

Abraham: Have these amendments been forced onto you by the WA Liberals? Will be so tough that the Government won't agree to them and will end up opposing the legislation?

Pyne: No. that's not my sense at all. The Western Australia Liberal party is not drafting the amendments, Ian McFarlane's drafting the amendments. Ian McFarlane is the Shadow Minister with responsibility for this matter. He and Malcolm Turnbull are drafting the amendments. The amendments will be sensible, will be achievable and the Government will negotiate if it's genuine, the Prime Minister keeps saying he wants to act in good faith. If he wants to act in good faith he will negotiate with the Opposition in his good faith otherwise he won't get his Bill because the Greens will oppose it outright. So he has to work with the Opposition. We'll work with him and there will be a negotiated outcome and I think by Christmas it'll be a storm in a teacup.

Abraham: Chris Schacht?

Schacht: It would take two hours of your program to understand what the Liberal Party position could be on this, or where it was or where it's going to be on the ETS. It's their fault, it absolutely is this mayhem that's destroyed the leadership standing of Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal Party is utterly dysfunctional organisationally. When you have a feral branch of the Liberal Party in West Australia doing over the Leader you just know that something is terribly wrong inside the Liberal Party. All Parties go into Opposition and Kim Beazley, who fell in 1996, the Labor Party didn't fall into disarray...the dysfunctional hole the Liberal Party is in at the moment.

Pyne: I don't know if you can make that comment. The Labor Party when in Opposition managed to have Kim Beazley, Simon Crean, Mark Latham, Kim Beazley again and then Kevin Rudd. Kim Beazley a Leader a third time in the Labor Party.

Schacht: What happened in the '98 election...

Pyne: Kim Beazley was Leader three times, wasn't he?

Schacht: Twice.

Abraham: Well how many times was John Howard Leader?

Pyne: Twice, over thirteen-and-a-half years.

Schacht: Can I just make another point? Beazley in the '98 Federal election...

Pyne: ...had been in Opposition a lot longer?

Bevan: You've got to give that to us!

Schacht: Well, in '98, Kim Beazley got a Two-Party preferred vote in Australia. Labor won nearly 20 seats from the...what they lost in the landslide of '96. And the Labor Party had had its problems, which can't be denied, we did not fall in the first term in Opposition to the hole that the Liberal party is in now.

Abraham: you waited...

Bevan: ...you held it together for the first term in Opposition...then fell apart at the seams.

Pyne: How many did you lose in 2004?

Schacht: Another two or three seats. Then they won that, plus plenty in 2007.

Abraham: John from Clearview, hello John?

Caller John: Now, Christopher Pyne, I just rang Kate Ellis' office and gave her this information. This morning I rang up Centrelink to give them my SA Super increases, which is only a small amount pr fortnight. Normally they accept it over the phone, as they do with everything else, and the guy said "no, we won't accept that over the phone now. You've got to get a fax, or email it, or get a Photostat copy." So I asked him if he'd accept my bank account increases and decreases over the phone and he said yes, they would and yet they won't accept the SA Super increases now!

Pyne: Well, I don't understand that. What did Kate Ellis' office say?

Caller John: They're going to investigate it for me. But I can't see why...bureaucracy's gone mad, I say. If they needed a hard copy for everything, that's well and good but he said he can't accept that kind of thing over the phone anymore!

Pyne: Well it's not that you can't tell Centrelink about updates to family allowances, so I can't understand why this is happening to you. Kate Ellis is your local member so make sure she does her job!

Abraham: I'm sure she will, too. Now I notice Simon Birmingham, your Liberal colleague, Christopher Pyne, does not think Obama deserved to win the Nobel Peace Prize. Lee from the Hills wants to know what C1 and C2 think. Barack Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

Pyne: Well, I congratulate Barack Obama on winning the Nobel Peace Prize. And I'm sure that the people who sit on the governing body of the Nobel Peace Prize thought very carefully about their choice before they chose Brack Obama and I'm sure they chose very wisely.

Abraham: Christopher Schacht?

Schacht: Well I...

Pyne: ...you know I actually can't point to anything that he's done in nine months that has bought about peace in a particular part of the world but I'm sure that the hope he's given to millions of people on the renewed engagement of the United States in the world is obviously the reason he's been given the prize and good luck to him.

Schacht: I was watching BBC's television service at about midnight when it came up as a newsflash "Barack Obama wins the Nobel Peace Prize" and I was, to say, a little startled because I'd never seen even speculation that he was in the running. And then I waited up until he gave his own statement and it was clear that he didn't even know how to give thanks...give praise or how to even be surprised himself. He put it into a broader context but the interesting thing is that every right-wing political commentator around the world has gone bezerk with news that the Nobel Peace Prize committee as well as saying he should not accept it and so and so on. You can guarantee that if George Bush won the Nobel Peace Prize those same commentators would be saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. So you've got a very special thing that around the world, according to where you sit, you've got a...

Abraham: ...I don't think George Bush would win it...

Schacht: ...well the right-wingers are saying he should have won it. Those "Social-Democrats are..."

Abraham: A radio commentator I heard said that Barack Obama did not deserve to win the Peace Prize...

Bevan: ...was it Bob Francis?

Abraham: No! No, no, this was in America! He was arguing that George W Bush has liberated the country...it's a bit broad, but it's freedom of liberties for people in Iraq. That's the sort of debate you're thinking about.

Schacht: I saw that man's commentator, he said it with a straight face! I fell of the chair listening to him say it. The interesting thing about Barack Obama is that whatever the right-wing say he has shifted a whole view around America which, has been very good for the United States and America and very good for all of us. There is a President that now gives, as we say, a fair bit of slack when trying to change things.

Pyne: I think that is a good point, what is good for the United States in terms of its reputation with the world is good for a country like Australia and good for the world because, at the end of the day, they are 40% of the world's economy and they are the ball work of freedom and liberty. Still 40% of the world's economy despite everything, they are at the front line in terms of liberty and freedom. Let's line up with them, we're in their column...

Schacht: ...when he went to the UN and chaired the Security Council, with all the other Leaders who are on the Security Council, I think that gave a real positive image for America world wide. That it was using the multi-lateral system to have good influence. It may have been a bit early but I think they were giving him a good tick for a job well done. Hopefully things will improve and you will...

Abraham: ...you encourage him to...

Pyne: ...and encouragement for the future. To just keep on doing what you're doing!

(ends)