Transcript - 2GB Ray Hadley - 21 June 2010

SUBJECTS: School Hall rip-off taskforce

RAY HADLEY:

Christopher Pyne, good morning.

CHISTOPHER PYNE:

Good morning, Ray and good to be with you.

RAY HADLEY:

Well, I gave Orgill the benefit of the doubt but I'm afraid based on what I heard from Friday, it was a grave doubt.

CHISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, I think we all gave him the benefit of the doubt because we wanted somebody to be standing up for the Australian taxpayer. The Minister, Julia Gillard, isn't standing up for the taxpayer. She keeps saying that there's really nothing wrong with the school hall rip-off and so we hoped that Brad Orgill would be the one who would actually get to the bottom of who was responsible for this mess and also ensure value for money but from his comments to the Upper House inquiry last week and things he's been saying basically since he was appointed, the Opposition has very deep concerns that he is the person who will actually be standing up for taxpayers so effectively right now, we have the Minister simply defending this complete rip-off of taxpayers and we have the hand-picked investigator basically getting Stockholm Syndrome and also lining up with the government and embarrassingly using the same rhetoric that Julia Gillard uses.

RAY HADLEY:

Yeah, did you notice also there, Christopher, that he was very careful when he said 'different systems'. Well, of course, the non-government schools are delighted because they are getting value for money.

CHISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, of course the Catholic system in particular has been in the media because they've been getting value for money to the extent that it's particularly embarrassing for the other state schools in the area because often the Catholic and the state schools have the same kind of demographic breakdown in terms of incomes in the family background so it really starkly underlines just how badly run this school hall rip-off programme has been and if Brad Orgill is not prepared to stand up for the taxpayer then the only thing left is the Opposition's call, which is a full judicial inquiry, into who is responsible for this mess and if Brad Orgill wanted to get some credibility back he would write to the Minister today saying delay the next round of spending on the school hall rip-off until after he's reported in August. If he doesn't do that, then quite frankly one has to wonder what on earth he is there for.

RAY HADLEY:

Now, I mentioned just before I introduced you the email I received from a member of the P&C at Cattai who was concerned, as I was, and I mentioned on air that he was out there for an hour and never took a note for the entire part of the meeting. But when I became a little nervous as we went and had a cup of tea in the old library, which has been replaced with another library despite the fact they didn't want a library, they wanted a hall, and he said to me, but Ray, you've got to accept that the idea of this entire operation was to get money out there quickly and from that it's been an outstanding success. And I said, hang on a sec, whoa, whoa, no one's disputing the fact that this government can spend money quicker than any other government in the history since federation. What you're supposed to be looking at, Mr Orgill, and I got quite animated, is value for money. And it seems to me that the next time is see Brad Orgill I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had leotards and pompoms as part of the cheer squad for Julia Gillard - give me a J! Give me a U! Give me an L! Give me an I! Give me an A! Julia, Julia, Julia!

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, that's a very colourful description, Ray, and I'll try and avoid commenting on that, but what Brad has fallen into the trap of is accepting that this programme was about stimulating the economy when actually his job is not to be the person who backs up the Deputy Prime Minister, his job is the person who says hang on, let's have a look at each contract and work out forensically where the taxpayers have been ripped off. The fact that he had a media adviser seemingly before he had any other kind of staff I think speaks volumes for where the priorities are for this taskforce and why the Opposition in the first place said that only a judicial inquiry could get to the bottom of the incompetence of this government. I mean, if Mr Orgill hands down a recommendation or a report in August which says things like he's said to you in the Cattai library, then basically it won't be worth the paper it's written on.

RAY HADLEY:

Unbelievable. And so it continues. As I said, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Based on his performance on Friday, I asked him to come on the programme this morning. I think he knew what was coming so he's politely declined to enter into the debate. Hopefully I'll get him in the future. And I'll remind him that what he's there to do is not to be cheer squad for the fact that this government can spend money more quickly than any other government since federation, but to see and ensure that we got value for money as they got in the Catholic system. Now, I draw your attention also to today's story, Christopher Pyne, in the Australian newspaper, where we still have Michael Coutts-Trotter, you know, and maybe he's got to be promised a seat in upper house when this government changes in March of next year, because he certainly won't be the Director-General of the Department of Education when Barry O'Farrell becomes Premier in the State of New South Wales, but he of course went about saying the reason why the Catholic system were getting better value for money was because they were building high quality sheds, which didn't allow for furniture and fittings. That was proved to be untrue and he actually apologised to the Catholic education system and said they were receiving ""quality buildings under the scheme"". But yet we still have this nonsense being spoken about at the Upper House inquiry on Friday and we still have Michael Coutts-Trotter who like the man charged with being the hope of the side standing alongside him in leotards and pom-poms but for a very good reason because he has very, very significant Labor Party affiliations, Mr Coutts-Trotter, very significant and they start at home and end at home. But, I can understand why he's a cheer squad for this particular organisation, being the federal Government and I don't understand why Mt Orgill hasn't done what he's supposed to have been doing.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, can I just say on Michael Coutts-Trotter that I think the fact is he's put up every kind of excuse in the book about why the Catholics are managing to get value for money where the non-governments, where the state schools have not because I think the truth is far too horrible for him to admit and that is that the New South Wales department of education have been ripped off blind by smarter people and if he admits that then the whole house of cards comes crashing down about the Government's competence or lack of it. So, he has to keep making up these absurd excuses about why the state department have not got value for money and yet the Catholics and the independent schools have and I think that is almost embarrassing and sad for him. He'd be better off admitting the truth and handing it over to somebody who can get value for money.

RAY HADLEY:

Ok, we've heard from him. I'll leave you with a couple of grabs from Michael Coutts-Trotter from Friday as well.

Michael Coutts-Trotter: We have really, really careful environmental requirements. I mean, the degree of the effort we put into the materials we choose, we specify the type of mortar between bricks so as bricks can be recycled at the end of the buildings life, that the mortar can be replaced.

RAY HADLEY:

Well, there you go, Christopher. Twenty two carat gold mortar. The reason it's costing double the Catholic system. Let's hear what he said again.

Michael Coutts-Trotter: There's a very good reason for that and it's the accumulated wisdom of decades of delivering building in NSW public schools that have lead to innovations in the way the schools are designed and also very, very exactly specified instructions contained within contracts on how the work's to be done.

RAY HADLEY:

I have it on good authority, Christopher Pyne, that he had his fingers crossed when he said both those things.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

I don't have any idea but I tell you what I can't understand why he and Brad Orgill and Julia Gillard aren't angry about this rip-off and rather than actually trying to defend it aren't saying that we are going to kick butts all over New South Wales until we get answers. I mean, parents and friends, principals are furious and yet all we hear from these people are excuses. Now, they should be angry and admitting that they've got this wrong and promise to get it right. I mean, what sort of mugs do they take the people for?

RAY HADLEY:

Pretty significant ones I would imagine based on Mr Orgill's treatment of them. Thanks for your time, Christopher.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Pleasure.

[ends]