Transcript - 2GB Ray Hadley - 2 June 2010

SUBJECTS: Tottenham School rally; Orgill taskforce

Ray Hadley: Christopher Pyne is the Shadow Education Minister. He's in Canberra. Christopher you wouldn't have heard; I've had a conversation with Brad Orgill which doesn't bring great confidence to me, and I've had a number of calls from people who are just sick to the back teeth with the BER. How did the rally go?

Christopher Pyne: The rally was a success, Ray because the Tottenham public school people actually built the canteen that is the size of the one in their school, which cost $25,000 per square metre. It should have cost more like $1300 per square metre. It cost $600,000.

Hadley: What do you mean they built it?

Pyne: They built a replica of it. They built a timber frame to show the size....

Hadley: What, to illustrate everyone how small it is and how much it cost?

Pyne: To demonstrate the size of it and how much it cost. And as Bill Heffernan pointed out - who was there - they built an $400,000 gymnasium with basketball courts, drop down viewing, seating and so forth for $400,000 in June for $200,000 less. And it's 800 square metres. It is one of the greatest scandals since federation, and the biggest scandal is the Minister is spending $5.5 billion in July of the School Hall Program even though the taskforce of Brag Orgill isn't reporting until August.

Hadley: Ok, let me got to you here. I need your help with Brad Orgill. He said to me when I said, ""will you stop,"" because I've been to one school, he told me he's been to 40 schools. And what we saw at Cattai in North Western Sydney has been replicated across the country. I said, ""will you stop it"" and he said, ""well what do you want me to do? Stop paying tradies?"" I said, ""No, stop paying it in New South Wales to the seven major contractors who've made a big, big lot of money out of the 11 billion dollars that's already been spent, and let's just cool it down.  Because Julia Gillard is saying she has no indication from you, no recommendation from you that would suggest that the third tranche of funds should be stopped.""

He then said to me something strange. Now I thought, and you can confirm this, that his terms of reference where to see whether it was delivering value for money in the public school system as opposed to what it was delivering the non-government school sector. He said what he was investigating was to see whether the contracts had been adhered to, when I asked him about clawing money back down the track. Now surely the goodness; we've got a contract there between Multiplex and the Government that says here's what you can spend and they did spend that, 950 grand. That's not what this is about, the Taskforce, that was what the auditor general did.

Pyne: Gillard and Orgill are playing pass the parcel between each other, Ray. And they're now both trying to push the blame off to the other one. Julia Gillard, when she announced this Taskforce very specifically said there was no need for a judicial inquiry because the Taskforce would get to the bottom of value for money. Brad Orgill is saying that he has no terms of reference to get to the bottom of value for money. So yet again the taxpayers of Australia are being not only ripped off financially, but being treated like mugs by a Government that refuses to take responsibility for this extraordinary waste and mismanagement. Either Gillard is responsible as the Deputy Prime Minister, or she's not. If not responsible she should get out of the job and get somebody in who could do it.

Because the problem we've got now is Brad Orgill travelling around to all these schools rather than investigating each contract to make sure they achieve value for money. If Brad Orgill is right about what he's told you, then he's doing no more than the New South Wales Department of Education audit process. So who is getting to the bottom of value for money?

Hadley: You see, one of the things he said to one of my colleagues, Alan Jones was that - and he said it to me at Cattai - was that, ""Ray, you got to balance this out. The idea was to spend a lot of money quickly to stimulate the economy."" I said, ""Hang on. You're supposed to be telling me that that little tiny library across the hallway that we're looking at here; why it cost $950,000 and part of the component was a $50,000 allowance for electricity to be converted via a little substation; a transformer from high to low voltage. I said, ""It wasn't required here. They had enough low voltage power. So the 50 grand has never been spent, but it has been given to the Multiplex organisation despite the fact that they didn't spend it. That's what you're here to see.""

Pyne: Brad Orgill is now arguing the benefits and advantages of the school hall rip-off program. He's now doing no more than Julia Gillard as a minister in the Government.

Hadley: Ok, a question without notice. I've got a ream of emails here saying that Brad Orgill - and there's no real nice of saying this - is an instrument of the Government, a puppet of the Government because he's part of the deal. Is Brad Orgill connected in any way to the Labor Government? Why was he chosen? He tells me, and I believe him, that he's fully independent. He's a highly credentialed former merchant banker who will do the right thing. Why are people telling me he's in some way connected to the Labor Party?

Pyne: I don't know what his connection to the Labor Party is other than the fact that he sat next to Julia Gillard at a boardroom dinner from what I read in the newspaper, and that how they got talking about education and she decided that he was the man to do this taskforce.

Hadley: Didn't he do some previous inquiry on behalf of this Government?

Pyne: I'm not aware of that. My concern with Brad Orgill is he appears to be mounting the same defences of the program as the Minister when you have quite rightly pointed out and as I have pointed out his job is supposed to be inquiring in to whether there was value for money for taxpayers....

Hadley: And nothing else.

Pyne: And if he's not doing that, the Taskforce is simply window dressing and an opportunity for Julia Gillard to excuse herself yet again from responsibility and what we really need is a judicial inquiry. At the moment we need a freeze on this $5.5 billion until after the election so the Coalition can pay the money directly to the public schools so they can get the same value for money that the non-government sector has got. Because what's happening now is difference between the government and the non-government sector is growing because the non-government sector is getting value for money and the government sector is being ripped off blind and people should be very angry about it.

Hadley: He did tell me, to give him credit; he did tell me that he believes from his investigations so far that that was factually correct. That non-government schools were getting better value than government schools.

Pyne: I think Blind Freddy could work that out, Ray.

Hadley: One of the things I said; we've not got another announcement today about a deputy chair and advisory panel about this Taskforce, and they're highly credentialed men and there may be a lady there as well, but highly credentialed men in a whole range of areas. But my problem is I'm only a mug. I went out there with Ray Williams, the local state member and sat there with Brad Orgill and I didn't need to go to another 39 schools because the building that was there is the same building everywhere else costing the same amount of money.

Pyne: Ray, why is Brad Orgill reporting in August about his initial recommendation, but his recommendations are obviously being completely ignored by the Government because they're already spending the $5.5 billion in July.

Hadley: He disputed that by the way, just to be fair. He said there would be $3 billion spent then, but the rest of it would come in two other packages down the track. The point being made is even if that's correct it means that we've got $14 billion out there of $16.2 billion and no way of getting it back.

Pyne: Well, he should recommend to the Minister today, if he wants to put his money where his mouth is, that he should freeze the program until he's given his recommendations, and if he doesn't do that then basically his taskforce is window dressing.

Hadley: Ok, just one final thing because of your expertise in this area. When it was insulation; and that was only costing $2.45 billion, but it did cost four young lives, we had the sacrificial lamb offered up in the form of Peter Garrett. His head was delivered on a platter to the Prime Minister. And Greg Combet came over the horizon like the cavalry to rescue everyone. Am I right in suggesting that the reason they'll never ever admit that Julia has got this completely and utterly wrong and stuffed it up completely is because she's the alternative Prime Minister?

Pyne: Well you're absolutely correct. The Government can't afford to let Julia Gillard wear this scandal because she is their one shot in the locker when Kevin Rudd falls over.

Hadley: Ok, well I thank you for you time and I hope I see this on TV tonight despite the fact that many other people seem to ignore this story; what they did from Tottenham to illustrate the farce that canteen is.

Pyne: Well let's hope so. Thanks Ray.

Ends