Sky News Richo

E&OE TRANSCRIPT SKY News Australia Richo with Graham Richardson Date 03/09/14 SUBJECT:  Interview with Christopher Pyne, Federal Minister for Education   GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Christopher Pyne welcome to the program. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Graham, thank you very much for having me. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   It’s always a pleasure. Now, I did send you a text, which you rudely did not answer, a couple of weeks ago and I said in it, they can’t even burn you when they cover you in petrol. I mean how is it that you escape all this opprobrium? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well, I think the protesters must have been art students because science students would have known that it’s very hard to burn an oil-based corflute poster. They really needed to add more cardboard and rags to burn a proper effigy, but I’m not going to do the work of the protesters for them. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Well, I’m sure that they’ll learn their lesson, because I think there’ll be another go. How is the selling of the higher education reforms going? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well, so far in the House of Representatives it looks like the 18 hours of debate that we will have on this reform bill will be the longest debate since the last election. I think that indicates how much interest there is and enthusiasm there is in the Coalition for this really, really important reform. In terms of selling the reform bill in a wider sense, there’s a lot of support coming from the university sector, from the vice-chancellors. Even people like Gareth Evans, the chancellor of the ANU, is supporting reform and other Labor figures are supporting change because they know how vital it is. The students are continuing in their opposition, but I think their opposition is more born out of frustration that the Abbott government was elected than it is about any of the details of my reform bill. I’m spending a lot of time with the Senate, obviously, and the cross benchers and I’m hopeful that by the end of the year there will be a very substantive reform, which will spread opportunity for students and give our universities the best chance possible to be internationally competitive. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Yeah, I mean obviously the Opposition are still the opposition and they’re not indicating that they’re easing up at all, from what I gather. The Greens won’t support you so it comes down to Palmer doesn’t it? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well, the Labor Party yesterday were very firmly against the reform bill, but last night Kim Carr indicated that there were parts of the reform bill that Labor did want to support. My advice to Labor is that they should play themselves into this discussion. They should be part of the national conversation. They know that reform is required. Over the course of the six years that they were in government they made an attempt at some reform. They also wanted to cut higher education. They know that the taxpayers don’t have bottomless pockets to fund universities and they know that students are only paying 40 per cent of the cost of their education and taxpayers are paying 60 per cent. So I believe that there are a lot of members in the Labor Party caucus who see the need for this reform and if they want to be part of the national conversation and rather than leaving it again to the Palmer United Party, which they did over the minerals, resources, rent tax and the carbon tax, I’m happy to talk to them. I’ve talked to Kim Carr about other education issues and I’m open to sitting down with Labor and coming up with a reform that will be good for students and good for universities. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Yeah look, I understand that, but I mean it’s – let’s just assume for the moment, and I want to get back to the Opposition and their position in just a second, but let’s just assume for the moment the Opposition stay where they are. I can only repeat it comes down to Clive Palmer. Now, have you been to the Chinese restaurant with him and have you had some duck and decided that, you know, he’s going to do the right thing or not? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well, you’re right. If Labor continue with their opposition to most of the bill and the Greens also – although I have sat down with Lee Rhiannon and talked to her and tried to find common ground. As you can see Graham, I’m talking to everyone because that is the nature of a Senate that’s been giving to us by the Australian people. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Christopher, knowing you both, there is simply no common ground between you and Lee Rhiannon, I’ve got to tell you. None, naught, zilch, zero. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        [Laughs] lethal Lee. Lethal Lee Rhiannon. But I’m very happy to talk to them and I believe that we will have a reform by the end of the year. But if they don’t talk to us then, obviously, it will come down to the Palmer United Party and there are five other cross benchers in the Senate that I’ll be talking to and have been talking to [indistinct]. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Yeah, but if you don’t get Clive Palmer you don’t win do you? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well, I will keep talking to Clive and I will keep talking to Jacqui Lambie and Glenn Lazarus. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   So that’s why asking you, have you talked to Clive? Have you actually sat down with Clive? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Of course. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   And how is that going? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Oh yes, I’ve talked to Clive many times. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   How is that going? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        It’s going well. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Do you think you’re a chance? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        I always feel like I’m making progress and I never take no for an answer Graham. So it’s a very important reform. Nobody will thank us at the end of the year if the status quo is maintained. Universities Australia have made that perfectly clear. The status quo is not an option into the future. There must be some reform. And if Palmer United Party’s position is do no harm, in other words leave things as they are, leaving things as they are is doing harm to the university sector and I’m getting that message through to them in every way that I can. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   And I think one of the criticisms, just getting back to the Opposition, that I’ve heard from them, is that poorer students who will take longer to pay back their debt, obviously because they don’t have as much money and mum and dad can’t chip in all of it or a big, substantial part of it, they’re going to have to pay more because your interest rates are up and they’re paying for longer. What’s your answer to that? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well, let me put it to you this way Graham: if Labor want to amend, with the Government, the ten year government bond rate as the interest charge on the HECS HELP debt of students, they should talk to us about that and negotiate with us about that. Otherwise what they’ll find is the cross benchers will get the credit for delivering reform, with the Government, and Labor will once again be on the sidelines whistling Dixie and being irrelevant to the process. If they want to ameliorate some of those aspects of the bill that they don’t like they’ve got to negotiate with us, otherwise the cross benchers will get the credit for changing things that students and many members of the university sector want to alter. The ball is in Labor’s court. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   But you’re saying that you and Kim Carr are talking. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well, we’re talking about aspects of this bill and another bill that we’re – I’m working on, which is more of a machinery of government bill and I’m open to discuss these things with Labor. I want there to be a reform and I’m not – my ego is such Graham, you’ll be surprised to hear that my ego is such that I can share the credit for reform with anybody who wants to be part of that process. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Oh you’re that kind of guy Chris right, I’m not surprised by that at all. Now, just getting back to the Palmer United Party, I noticed you mentioned you’d spoken to Jacqui Lambie, have you spoken to Glenn Lazarus and Ricky Muir? I mean are you treating them as individuals or are you treating them as a group? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well I’m not going to give a running commentary obviously on my negotiations but I have talked to Ricky Muir and Jacqui Lambie, David Leyonhjelm, Nick Xenophon, John Madigan, Bob Day, I’m yet to see Glenn Lazarus – we tried several times to set up a meeting but that hasn’t yet been successful, but now that he’s done his maiden speech in the Senate last night I’m hoping to get a chance to meet with him and obviously I’ve met with Dio Wong, so I’m leaving no stone unturned.  Obviously spoken to Clive Palmer, Cathy McGowan in the lower house, Lee Rhiannon, Kim Carr.  I mean this is the most important change to universities in 40 years.  It is vital reform.  If we’re going to have the kinds of universities that give our students a high quality education, protect our $15 billion international education market, third biggest export after iron ore and coal, we can’t afford to lose that and we can’t afford not to have change. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Well if we’re going to get some change, is it the sort of change that is going to as some of the critics are saying, simply build up your top eight to ten universities, you know, the University of Sydney or Melbourne or Monash or whatever, you build up the big ones and the others just fall behind. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        No, because the big winners from this reform will be innovative universities that take the opportunity of the extension of the demand driven system to diplomas and associate degrees, the expansion of the Commonwealth Grant Scheme to non-university higher education providers like TAFEs.  Many of the regional universities already have collaborations with TAFEs as do some of the suburban universities in the cities.  The universities that grasp the opportunity to fashion their Commonwealth scholarships to suit the market that they want to appeal to, invest in research.  Non Go8 universities have just as much opportunity to benefit from these reforms as the Go8 universities and that’s why Universities Australia which represents 39 public universities has a united position behind reform of the higher education sector with tweaks.  Now those tweaks I’m happy to talk to them about, but nobody in the university sector is saying defeat this legislation in its totality. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   I have to say you’re right there, I think you’ve done a pretty good job of selling it to the sector.  The question is can you sell it to the public because in the end they’re the ones who put their hands up in voting and I’ve got to say that, yeah, most of this budget has struggled.  I’m wondering how you think you’re going with the mob. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well honestly I think that the Australian public are surprised when they hear that they are still paying 60 per cent of the cost of a student’s education who will then go on to earn 75 per cent more than them over a lifetime.  We’ll have a longer life expectancy, better health outcomes and lower unemployment.  A lot of people in Australia think the students are paying 100 per cent and when they find out they’re only paying 40 I think it changes the debate markedly.  And I think a lot of people who don’t have university degrees think I don’t mind making a contribution but 50/50 sounds like a fair exchange, not the 60/40 that is currently in the student’s favour. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Well you may be right.  I guess time will tell.  Just before we go what about some other questions now that the first anniversary of government is just about to be upon us.  So I wanted to know how do you rate the Government’s performance and how do you rate your own? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        [Laughs]  Well I think I’ll leave people rating my performance up to others.  I think that would be self serving to talk about my own role.  I think the Government has done a very good job in its first year.  I was here for the Howard Government’s first year and in that year we lost three ministers through various – for various reasons and it was rather a tumultuous year.  In our first year we’ve responded magnificently I think to the MH17 tragedy.  We have responded well to the MH370 disaster in the Indian Ocean.  We’ve abolished the carbon tax.  We’ve abolished the mining tax.  We’ve kept our election promises.  We’ve stopped the boats and we’re starting to repair the budget. About half the budget or more is now through.  In fact a lot more than half is now through if you count the mining tax and its associated spending measures are now through the Parliament.  So I think we are delivering and the Cabinet is still the same, the ministry is still the same.  It’s a stable government… GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Well it’s not quite the same, I mean Arthur Sinodinos might tell you it’s slightly different mightn’t he? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Well Arthur is in abeyance.  I wouldn’t say that he is no longer there.  He’s currently in a seclusion of some kind but I am very confident that once the ICAC are finished… GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Would you put the house on him coming back? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        I think once the ICAC have given him a clean bill of health, Arthur will take his rightful place as the Assistant Treasurer yet again.  So we’ve been a stable government, well led by Tony Abbott and I think it’s going about as well as can be expected of a first year government. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Christopher, once again you are the eternal optimist.  If that’s all that’s in store… CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        I’m always very optimistic. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   If that’s all that’s in store for Arthur Sinodinos then he’s going to be a very lucky man.  Thank you for your time, it’s always a pleasure. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:        Thanks.  It’s been good to be with your Graham, thank you. GRAHAM RICHARDSON:   Christopher Pyne in Canberra. [ends]