Sky News PM Agenda

SUBJECTS: School Funding E&OE............................... David Speers: That has seen concern expressed by the shadow Education Minister Christopher Pyne today who believes we could end up with a mish-mash of States on different models. Christopher Pyne joins us now. Thank you for your time. Can I start with a press release we’ve just received from the Premier - sorry the Premier, your opposite number, the Minister Peter Garrett, now he says that you today, Christopher Pyne today, has confirmed that the Coalition would take away $14.5 billion from schools. He’s in particular pointing to your concern about only some States signing up and your suggestion that if the Coalition is elected you would only have a uniform model. Can you just clarify for us this point, if some States sign up and others don’t what would the Coalition do should you win the election? Hon Christopher Pyne MP: Well, I'm less concerned David about what the Coalition will do, if we are elected and what the Government is trying to do who are in Government. Let's not allow the Government to try and distract people from the fact they their school funding announcement has been their latest shambolic and incompetent attempt at public policy. Now, if the Coalition is elected we will have to see what gets through COAG this Friday. The point I'm making though is it would be utterly unacceptable and it would indicate the Prime Minister had effectively jumped the shark like Fonzy in Happy Days if she proceeds with a non-nationally consistent model. For decades we’ve had a nationally consistent Commonwealth funding, funded school model. Whether it is the current socioeconomic status model or whether before that it was the education resource index model. The Prime Minister if she’s serious about this bizarre statement that she's made today, that she would have different models for different States, could effectively end up with 8 to 16 different models because of the non-government sector and the government sector and the 8 different States and Territories. Now that would be totally flying in the face of what David Gonski proposed in his report. He said there should be more national consistency not less. If the Prime Minister is serious about that then she is potentially adding a ball and chain to the Coalition if we are elected of a mish-mash of different funding model which is more complex, more, less transparent more bureaucratic, more expensive to administer it would be a fiasco. Speers: Ok. But Christopher Pyne at the moment we have eight different State and Territory models, eight different Catholic models, we have different Independent school funding models. Pyne: No we don't. We have one national- we don't David. People don't understand the national funding model. We have a socioeconomic status model which applies in exactly the same way to every school whether it is non-government, or government or whether it is Catholic or independent, around the country and that model flows through to every state in exactly the same way. Speers: That model does not guarantee that every student receives a certain base level of funding does it? Pyne: Yes, it does because every State has to make its own decision about how it funds its students. But from the Commonwealth perspective the funding amount is exactly the same. So, whether you are in a school, in Athelstone or if you are in a school in Adelaide. Speers: Yes, that’s right. It doesn't mean every student at the moment is receiving the same level of funding. Pyne: But that's up to the states. Speers: It doesn't mean that every student at the moment is receiving the same level of funding. Pyne: Hang on it is a nationally consistent and uniform model. Every student, the Commonwealth funds… Speers: Yes, but it’s up to the States as you say, it’s up to the States what each student is receiving which would be the same if some States sign up for this and others don't. Pyne: No, no it wouldn't be because at the moment the Commonwealth funds every student in exactly the same way. Regardless of whether they are in South Australia, or whether they are in Tasmania. What Julia Gillard has said today is that in fact there’d be different rates from the Commonwealth depending on whether the States signs up to this agreement or not. So effectively you could have a different amount going to a student in NSW than, and exactly the same student in Tasmania being funded at a different rate from the Commonwealth and that is now not possible under the current SES funding model. That would only be because of the Prime Minister throwing the baby out with the bathwater, as I said jumping the shark in a desperate attempt to have an election plan not an education plan. Speers: So then what would the Coalition do if this is unacceptable to have different States receiving different levels of Commonwealth funding at least. What would you do about it? Would you scrap the deals that the Prime Minister may have struck with some States? Pyne: We’ll have to see what the States do on Friday. I mean we can't, the Opposition is not in government. This will come as a shock to a lot of people in the commentariat but the truth is the Government has responsibility for this plan, the Prime Minister has to get it through the Council of Australian Governments on Friday, if she can't get all the States and Territories to agree then she has to shelve this model because she cannot have a situation where there is a different Commonwealth levels of funding going to exactly the same kind of student in different States around the country. Speers: But you are not willing to say you would change that? Pyne: If this model gets through, the Coalition will not be tinkering and fiddling about with the funding model after the election. If the States sign up to it this is the model they will end up with. Now that's a matter for the States and Territories to determine. It's not a matter for the Coalition to pre-empt the Council of Australian Governments. What I'm pointing out and have been since Sunday morning, is the hypocrisy of the Government in announcing $11 billion of education cuts and $9.4 billion of spending in effect this model is a saving to the Commonwealth Government of $1.6 billion. And Andrew Wilkie has put out a statement this afternoon forget Peter Garrett’s statement, Andrew Wilkie’s pointed out this afternoon what a massive disappointment this is. This is not a response to the Gonski Report; this is a savings to - saving to the Federal Government in education. Speers: Look I appreciate that you’re not in government, but you may be in five months according to the polls, and you are the one saying that what the Government is doing here is a joke. So just on those funding cuts, can I again ask you, is there anything there that you oppose or would reverse? Pyne: Well, if we were in government we wouldn't have got the budget into the position where the government is robbing Peter to pay Paul by taking $2.8 billion away from university students to give to school students. We wouldn't be reducing funding to apprentices and traineeships as they did in the mid-year economic forecasts last year. They cancelled the Laptops in Schools Programme. They are redirecting $3.5 billion from the national partnerships into this model. I mean what people need to understand David is if we are in government we wouldn't have run five years of deficit budgets and cumulated $173 billion. Speers: Okay. Pyne: We wouldn't have $300 billion of gross debt, this Government has run up which is why they are making a savings in the Gonski response of $1.6 billion, it’s a scandal. Speers: Fair point about the debt but again, you know this is not something you can wish away if you do win the election, what will you do? Would you undo any of these spending cuts? Pyne: Well we have to wait and see what the States agree to on Friday. But we can't save the university sector or the apprentices and trainees from Opposition. We can only do that in government. If we get elected if we are fortunate to get elected we will do what is necessary to get the Budget back under control. To reduce people's cost of living pressures and support their jobs and to protect Australian borders and after we have done those things we will be able to be generous with the university sector and apprentices and trainees as the Howard Government was without the profligate spending this Government has engaged in which is why they are using education to make cuts to spending of Federal Government outlays. Speers: Just a final question and returning I guess to the earlier point you would guarantee that a Coalition government would have a uniform funding model for all States and Territories? Pyne: If COAG falls over on Friday, if the Government can't get this model nationally consistently applied across the country, the Coalition will continue the current SES funding model plus the current indexation arrangements which is on average have been 6% over the last 10 years. We’ve already offered to the Government that we would spend the current model for one to two years in order to give the sector time to bed down a new funding model. I don't believe there is time from July to December for the education sector to implement a new funding model. Let's not forget they have had the Gonski Report since November 2011, and they gave the States five days, five days to consider the quantum of funds for a new school funding model. This is no way to run a country David; it is high time the Government started behaving competently and not incompetently. Speers: Shadow Education Minister Christopher Pyne, thank you for joining us this afternoon. No doubt we will talk later in the week once we have a clearer idea of what is going to happen with these reforms. ENDS.