Sky News PM Agenda

DAVID SPEERS: Christopher Pyne, thanks for your time. Can I start with Penny Wong and the comments she’s made about Donald Trump. She says, quote, we are at a change point and face the possibility of a very different world. Our collective task now is to carefully and dispassionately consider Australia’s foreign policy and global interests over the coming months, and how best to effect those within the alliance framework. Is she right?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well it’s a curious intervention from Penny Wong, and really it’s a matter for the Labor Party. We have hitherto had a bipartisan approach towards the US alliance.

DAVID SPEERS: She says that remains.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well she says it and then qualifies it. Now, one of the important things about the Australian foreign policy and defence posture has been it’s a settled view. We share the same values as the United States and our other partner countries around the world; we are a very reliable and consistent partner in both operations, and now very clearly in the build-up of our defence capability.

DAVID SPEERS: But is she right in saying this is a change point?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The US alliance will be as strong today as it will be in four years, as it was four years ago, and in fact there are tremendous opportunities in a Trump presidency.

DAVID SPEERS: And I want to get to those, but again is she wrong in saying we should be considering Australia’s foreign policy over the months ahead?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: We are always thinking about foreign policy, but …

DAVID SPEERS: So there’s nothing wrong in what she’s saying?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well for those people who want to put the US alliance at risk, or who want to question the US alliance, that is a curious position for an alternative government to do, if that’s what they are doing. But really, it’s a matter for Bill Shorten and Penny Wong. It doesn’t affect the Government’s view, which is that the US is at the centre of our security position. We want them as closely involved in Asia as possible, and happily that seems to be going to be the case, if you can believe the things that are being said about the Trump administration.

DAVID SPEERS: [Talks over] Well let’s talk about [indistinct]. Rudy Giuliani, he’s not part of the administration yet, but we know he’s in the transition team, he’s very close, he could become the Secretary of State. He’s flagged a gigantic military expansion: a military of 550,000 troops, a navy of 350 ships. Would you welcome that?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, I would welcome that. He’s talking about building up their navy by 70 vessels, their army by 60,000 personnel, their aircraft by about another 80 to 100, 12 new Marine Corps battalions. This is a very substantial policy and a build-up of US military capability. It means that they will obviously be staying deeply engaged in the Asia-Pacific region, which is very important from Australia’s point of view.

DAVID SPEERS: So not winding back their bases in Japan and South Korea? Because Donald Trump was critical of Japan and South Korea not doing enough, paying enough, lifting their weight.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well what bases the United States decides to maintain is a matter for them, but what’s clear from what Rudy Giuliani has said, and from what Donald Trump has said since he was elected, is that there appears to be no stepping away from their deep engagement in Asia. We want that to be both military and economic, but also this policy from the incoming administration is an opportunity for Australian defence industry.

DAVID SPEERS: What are those opportunities?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, we are very interoperable with the US defence forces, the defence force. We have already companies like CEA, with their phased array radar, Austal ships selling into the United States, building in the United States. There are many other companies that are involved. And what both the United States and Australia have as their priorities is capability, but secondly we both want to maximise defence industry in our own countries. And we can work cooperatively and collaboratively, as we have, to make sure that our platforms and our equipment, our kit if you like, is the best in the world, because of course we are the two countries that are most closely engaged, in many respects. We are the second largest contributor to the Middle Eastern forces for the Allies after the United States. So we both contribute operationally, and we’re also at two per cent of GDP in terms of our spending on defence.

DAVID SPEERS: Well, we will be in 2023. We’re not there yet.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: We’ll be there by about 2020, 2021, and we’ll probably surpass that into the future because of the size of our increase in our defence spending.

DAVID SPEERS: Above two per cent?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: It’s possible because of the size of our increase in defence capability that we might not make exactly two per cent, it could be slightly above that, it might be slightly even further above that into the future. That’ll be a matter for other Defence Industry Ministers down the track.

DAVID SPEERS: Speaking of kit, there is one bit of kit that Donald Trump criticised before the election: it’s the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. He said, and I quote, it’s not very good; I’m hearing that our existing planes are better. Now, he may have been referring to the F-22 Raptor, which is a better plane, but sadly not available to Allies, even Australia. Are you worried that Donald Trump might wind back the American commitment on the F35? Because we’ve invested pretty heavily in this.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The Joint Strike Fighter program is very, very well-advanced, and I’m sure that President-Elect Trump will get all the briefings, the necessary briefings about these various programs. That one is very well-advanced. In fact, just last week Australia was chosen to be the maintenance and sustainment hub for componentry of the Joint Strike Fighters for the Asia Pacific region, a real feather in our cap, adding to us also doing the engines and the frames for the Joint Strike Fighters. So …

DAVID SPEERS: [Interrupts] When he says it’s not very good, you think he’ll be persuaded otherwise?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, I’m not going to give the President of the Free World- the Leader of the Free World advice about what briefings he should get. Suffice to say that the Australian Government is committed to the Joint Strike Fighter and we are very much looking forward to it being in our hands.

DAVID SPEERS: Now, if this expansion that Rudy Giuliani talks about here [audio skips] and Donald Trump had signalled before the election takes place, how do you see the region responding? Because China has been ramping up its military spending, and I think on current projections it’s still a long way behind, but within 15 years, it will be matching the United States. Do you think Donald Trump wants to stop that happening?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, there are a lot of people theorising about the Trump Administration. What we’ve seen since Wednesday, since Tuesday US time is a President-Elect who is acting very sensibly, very calmly. We were fortunate to receive a phone call the next day or the day of his election as the President-Elect, which indicates his very high regard for Australia and our alliance with the US. People can theorise across Asia, but the bottom line is we all want the United States deeply engaged in Asia.

DAVID SPEERS: And if- just quickly, for Australia’s part. Are we prepared, are you prepared to see long-range US bombers based in Australia, aircraft carrier battle groups visiting Australia, basing in Australia? Are we prepared to do more?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, we are already doing a great deal, and in fact, the Marine Base at Darwin has only just been settled in terms of the final arrangements that Marise Payne settled in Washington recently with Ash Carter. So I think talking about next steps, it might be a bit premature to do that. And the United States never says or believes that Australia’s not pulling its weight. We’ve been engaged with them in every major conflict since 1918.

DAVID SPEERS: There’s a willingness to consider, at least, further steps down the track.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, I’m not going to let you draw me down that track.

DAVID SPEERS: What, then, about a more immediate question: Australia conducting freedom of navigation exercises within 12 nautical miles of disputed islands in the South China Sea?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, we have a policy in relation to the South China Sea, and that is that we believe we can navigate through those international waters, and we do so. Decisions about whether we would sail within 12 nautical miles of disputed territories are pretty serious decisions that need to be made calmly by the National Security Committee at the appropriate time. But our posture is to try and relieve pressure in the South China Sea, is to try and get the parties to work together, to recognise the international decisions that have been made in the Court of Arbitration, and get China to abide by those. It isn’t actually to sabre rattle or ramp up pressure or create further tensions.

DAVID SPEERS: Christopher Pyne, thank you very much for that. Appreciate it.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: It’s a pleasure.