Sky News First Edition

E&OE TRANSCRIPT Interview - SKY News Australia First Edition Wednesday 3 December 2014 SUBJECT: Higher Education Reforms KIERAN GILBERT:             We're returning to our top story now and the Government's defeat in the Senate of its higher education reforms and with me is the Education Minister Christopher Pyne. Mr Pyne thanks for your time. You're getting straight back at the task today with the legislation in the Parliament, can you explain to our viewers why you think this is going to have any different outcome to what we saw yesterday with the vote going down 33 to 31? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     Well we have decided to pursue a new reform bill Kieran that picks up nine out of ten of the elements of the original bill, drops the indexation at the ten-year government bond rate of the Higher Education Contributions Scheme debt and returns that to being a CPI indexation, so in effect it just keeps the value of the cost of living. There are new elements to the bill though. For example there'll be a transition fund for universities. We will skew the scholarships towards low SES students and rural and regional students. We'll have the ACCC with an oversight role on feed prices and I believe that that picks up many of the issues that were raised by the crossbenches that engaged with the Government and I think it has a very high chance of success in the new year. Good reform takes time. Important reform takes time. You certainly should not leave the battlefield after one defeat. KIERAN GILBERT :            So you obviously think you'll get Nick Xenophon across the line, he's obviously quite reasonable to deal with but then you've got the likes of Glen Lazarus and he wasn't so reasonable yesterday was he in terms of your correspondence with him, having a go at you for sending him too many text messages and so on. How do you convince him and the Palmer United Party? That is a real [indistinct]. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     That's part of my job and I think I've had a lot of success with some members of the Palmer United Party, not with all of them. Glen Lazarus is the only crossbencher who's yet to meet with me despite many requests. So, I've corresponded with him in writing and by SMS and confusingly he told Samantha Maiden he was happy for me to text him anytime I wanted, so I'm as confused as the next bloke about what I'm supposed to do on that front. But I think in the new year the new reform bill has a high chance of success. I'll spend as much time as is necessary working with the crossbench. Universities Australia will continue to support the Government in this reform because it's vital for universities and it's vital for students. KIERAN GILBERT :            Your confidence is clear but how do you get the likes of Jacqui Lambie to negotiate. Again I'll put it to you that she's intransigent on this, she's not budging. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     Well Kieran, we need six out of eight. We don't need eight out of eight crossbenchers. It's a pity that Labor and the Greens are deciding to simply be vandals and wreckers. They were wreckers in government, they're now vandals in opposition. They've taken themselves out of the equation. That gives the crossbenches a tremendous amount of power. I will work with all of them but if they prove to be intransigent I'll try another way. The reality is this reform must happen, must happen for universities and students and the Government is not about to take it off the table. KIERAN GILBERT :            Do you accept that it was a bad way to finish the year in a legislative sense for the Government to have another defeat? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     No. I don't think the Australian public will ever mark someone down for having a go. I think you get marked down for not having a go. I think it's important if you believe in something to put it up. If it's defeated - and let's remember it was defeated 33/31and a few weeks ago people were saying I wouldn't get any crossbenches support and I got Senators Leyonhjelm, Day, Maddigan and Muir.  We are making progress and we'll continue to go forward. KIERAN GILBERT :            Well, you make the case that you need to deregulate the price if you're going to deregulate the numbers going into the universities - you can't do one without the other because it diminishes the quality of education.  But I want to put to you the central case of your critics and that is what do you say to families on very low incomes or students who are starting from scratch or even behind in many cases when they look at this prospect of facing ever increasing university fees.  That is likely to be a deterrent to people of that background isn't it? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     No it isn't and it hasn't been.  The UK has deregulated their fees.  The demographic makeup of the universities in the UK has changed.  There are more low SES students at universities now than before the deregulation of fees.  You see in Australia a student can borrow every single dollar up front under the Higher Education Contribution Scheme.  Index of CPI, it's the best loan they'll ever get.  Because of the massive expansion of Commonwealth scholarships, more low SES students will get to go to university and the Government will still pay - the taxpayer will still pay 50 per cent of the cost of their education on average with the student contributing 50 per cent.  Now I think that's a fair deal. KIERAN GILBERT :            What about the numbers that the Opposition's putting up like $300,000 potential bills for social workers and so on, they'll never be able to pay it off. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     They've never mentioned 300 but they have mentioned $100,000 degrees and of course that's a lie.  It's not possible, it's just a scare campaign... KIERAN GILBERT :            The Opposition leader yesterday on the ABC on radio did say $300,000... CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     Well then he must have jumped the shark Kieran because that's the first time he said that.  He is getting increasingly hysterical of course Bill Shorten because he's weak and he's duplicitous and he's trying to trick the Australian public.  But there's no possibility of such degrees and with CPI as indexation rather than a real interest rate, of course it's completely beyond comprehension that there could be such degrees and no university has announced that there will be.  So Bill Shorten, the weak leader of the Opposition as usual trying to trick people into believing something which is a lie. KIERAN GILBERT :            We've seen the front page of The Australian, backbench committee essentially on economic matters, refusing to sign off on government policy.  This is quite odd.  It was about the Medical Research Fund.  What's going on here? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     Well they're just doing their job. KIERAN GILBERT :            [Indistinct] like you're losing faith with cabinet communications approach? CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     They're just doing their job.  The backbench committees - and I spent a long time on the backbench as lots of people remind me quite often.  The backbench committees, their job is to scrutinise government legislation before it goes forward to the party room and in to the Parliament.  If they think they need more time to look at a piece of legislation then it's perfectly regular. KIERAN GILBERT :            I guess it comes to the point is there a problem with the communications approach and not just to the electorate but within the Government, one frontbencher put it to me that this government is run more like the Rudd Government than the Howard Government. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     Well I think that's rubbish.  I think the Government is run very well.  We've had a terrific year.  We've abolished the carbon tax, the mining tax, we've settled three free trade agreements with Korea, with Japan, with China.  We have got confidence in business and consumer confidence back on the rise again.  The economy is starting to recover.  75 per cent of the budget measures out of 400 have passed.  So I think that kind of talk is complete rubbish. KIERAN GILBERT :            Mr Pyne thanks for your time. CHRISTOPHER PYNE:     It's a pleasure. [ends]