PVO Newsday

PETER VAN ONSELEN: As mentioned, I’m joined now by Christopher Pyne, live from his office in Canberra. Thanks very much for your company.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Peter, it’s good to be with you again.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Let me ask you, if I can, right off the top about this deplorable self-titled group of deplorables that I wrote about in The Aus today. Are you disappointed that they’re getting together via text messages and phone conversations, even if, as some of them have said, it’s about policy positions that do undermine Malcolm Turnbull and the Government’s officially-stated policy position?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Peter, politics is not a soap opera, and the Australian public want us to focus on the things that matter to them – their cost of living, their jobs, the cost of electricity, the supply of energy – and these kinds of issues, these distracting issues are so inside the Beltway, if you went down to the local supermarket in my electorate at Wattle Park or at Newton and asked them about this story to do with the so-called deplorables, they would look at you quizzically and wonder how on earth that was going to impact on their life. So I’m not going to be a commentator on those kinds of stories; I’m going to focus on defence industry and creating jobs in Australia in defence, and providing the best capability possible for our Defence Forces in the 21st century.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Fair enough, just one last one then on this, though. It doesn’t change, though, the fact that, newsworthy or not, public interested in it or not – and I don’t disagree with you that it’s your job to get on with the business of government – someone or people within the Government have obviously leaked this to me; it didn’t just fall off the back of a truck, so to speak. What about a text which I showed a little earlier that came from Tony Abbott at the end of last year, where he said something to the effect of let’s hope that 2017 is a better year than 2016 was for all of us. What was so bad about 2016? You won an election.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well 2016 was a great year of achievement, and in fact in the eight months since the election in July we have passed more important legislation through the parliament that affects peoples’ lives, like reform of industrial relations through the Australian Building and Construction Commission, reform of unions through the Registered Organisations Commission, savings measures to help balance the budget and create jobs. We have been getting on with the job….

PETER VAN ONSELEN: …Yet Tony Abbott thought it was a bad year.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well it wasn’t; we passed more in eight months than we did in the previous three years, with less seats in both houses of parliament. And of course, we won an election, which is quite an achievement when you look around the Western world and see how few incumbent governments are actually getting re-elected. Just getting re-elected was an amazing achievement, which I put down to Malcolm Turnbull and his team working on the subjects that the public cared about, rather than being distracted with issues that really are of no concern to the average Australian voter.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Last question on something other than policy I promise, Christopher Pyne. Is the Prime Minister right; do you agree with him when he says that it’s Tony Abbott’s fault, these Newspoll numbers out today?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well we’ve had a very good three weeks, Peter, up until last Friday, and we had been putting together a very important story for the Australian public about how we would protect energy security, reduce the prices of electricity and energy and make it more reliable, explaining the issues that people cared about. And Labor, of course, were spinning their wheels with 19 different positions on the Renewable Energy Target, unable to explain whether it was going to be legislated, whether it was a target or whether it was an aspiration, because of course they are caught between their inner city Green-leaning base and their industrial base amongst the workers of Australia who understand the importance of reliable and cheap energy. And unfortunately, that went significantly off the rails at the end of last week, and there was only one reason for that. So whether that was the one reason for the poll or not, it was unfortunate that it coincided with a Newspoll weekend. And we are going to get back on with the job, as we did on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and again today, as I’ve been trying to do since I was the Defence Industry Minister, and I’m not going to change my course of direction.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: You’re also the Leader of the House. There’s sittings in the House of Representatives during the course of this week. I would expect that aside from the internals around the Government, which you might expect to see Labor ask a few cheeky questions in the tail end of question time, their focus will be on penalty rates. How does the Government turn this around, given that it’s all there in black and white in terms of who brought in the Fair Work Commission, in terms of what Bill Shorten had to say both in terms of honouring the umpire’s decision, as well as getting this whole issue referred to the Fair Work Commission in terms of their ability to intervene on penalty rates. The facts back the Government up; however, my prediction – sadly, if I could put it this way – is that Labor is likely to really make a political running on this and it’s going to be hard for the Government to cut through, even if it’s got good reason to cut through.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well this is a decision that Bill Shorten owns. He created the review of penalty rates, he hand-picked the Fair Work Commission, including Iain Ross, who was a long-term leader of the Australian Council of Trade Unions, and they have produced a 500-page report about penalty rates, changing four out of 122 awards, and Bill Shorten owns this decision lock, stock and barrel. And if Bill Shorten wants to talk about penalty rates, then he needs to explain why he traded away the penalty rates of the Clean Event workers, why he traded away the penalty rates of Chiquita Mushrooms workers – and in the case of Clean Event, in return received cash payments to the Australian Workers’ Union and membership lists to increase his power over the Victorian ALP. So Bill Shorten does not come to this debate with clean hands. He owns the decision, and when he was the secretary of the Australian Workers’ Union he was more than happy to trade away penalty rates in rather dubious circumstances.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Should the Government, though, have made a submission to the Fair Work Commission in hindsight? Labor is using the fact that it didn’t to attack the Government for not having stood up for workers.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, I think that’s something of a red herring. There’s no requirement or reason why the Government would intervene in these matters in the Fair Work Commission. The Fair Work Commission spent years – literally years, from 2012 to today when Bill Shorten gave them the reference – examining this up hill and down dale from every different angle, and they’ve come to a conclusion in four awards out of 122. Penalty rates haven’t been abolished. They’ve just been changed to the same as Saturday’s penalty rates, and the idea that somehow this is the issue that Labor will latch on to, well they’re basically latching on to Bill Shorten’s decision because he is the father of this decision and there’s no amount of bluff or bluster or Labor lies is going to change that fact.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Well the way the PM’s been performing in Question Time, my suspicion is that he will able to throw that back at Shorten so it will be fascinating to watch come 2 o’clock. Let me now get your views on the wider issue or IR reform in the context of that Fair Work Commission decision. Does the Government like the decision that the Fair Work Commission has made? Philosophically like it and think that it is a good decision?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well it’s entirely an irrelevant point whether the Government likes or dislikes it. The reality is it’s a decision of an independent umpire, appointed by Bill Shorten, referred to by Bill Shorten …

PETER VAN ONSELEN: …But the government must have an opinion.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: … And whether we like it or dislike it is neither here nor there. It’s the reality of what the Fair Work Commission has decided just like if the Reserve Bank made a decision about interest rates, whether we like or dislike the decision on interest rates, it’s a matter for an independent institution, in that case the Reserve Bank of Australia …

PETER VAN ONSELEN: …Well hang on a sec Minister – hang on a sec Christopher Pyne, I mean look sure but …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: …Those courts make decisions everyday. Whether we like or dislike them, the point is they’re the decisions the court have made.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Sure but when it came to the Road Safety Tribunal, you guys just abolished it when you didn’t like its decision. You’re not going to abolish the Fair Work Commission in this instance is that because you like its decision?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the RSRT was a fit up created again by the Labor Party in order …

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Yeah but the Fair Work Commission was set up by Labor …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: …was about the control of transport in Australia and we weren’t prepared to tolerate that whereas the tradition of an independent arbiter in industrial relations has been part of our architecture in this country since the early part of the twentieth century. And the idea that it should be overturned because Bill Shorten is drowning when it comes to energy and electricity in order to try and find a new issue is quite frankly absurd. And we’re not going to buy up to Bill Shorten yet again trying to be a political hypocrite over an issue when he’s drowning on another issue. We’re not going to be distracted.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Okay one last one. It’s a policy question but it is little inside the beltway but worth discussing because it’s a micro-example which I think it worth of a macro-discussion. In Aussies – I don’t know if you got a coffee from Aussies today there at the Parliament House, Christopher Pyne, but it’s a small business that rents a bit of area in the restricted part of Parliament House. They sell coffees, they sell meals. It’s a popular hangout. You would know it as every bit as well, if not better than I do. They’ve jacked up the rent. That’s the right of the Parliamentary Services, the Department of Parliamentary Services, but apparently, Christopher Pyne, they also have a right to be able to check the books of the small businessmen and do audits on him. That’s not very friendly to small business. The new Ombudsman, Kate Carnell, would like to take action to stop this from happening. What’s your view?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well it’s the job of the Department of Parliamentary Services to be the guardian of taxpayer’s funds. Now whether $94,000 a year rent for Aussies, which is a very profitable business and everyone knows it’s a very profitable business: it’s basically the only delicatessen in a small country town which is basically what Parliament House is when Parliament’s sitting. There’s about 4000 workers here when Parliament’s on and it’s the only place you can get some of the items they provide, whether $94,000 is a commercial rent is really a matter for the Department of Parliamentary Services …

PETER VAN ONSELEN: …I don’t mind that side of it – sorry to interrupt – I don’t mind them jacking up the rent. I don’t mind them jacking up the rent. That’s – that can happen with landlords. But for this small business, the part I object to is the idea, because this wouldn’t be allowed by a Westfield with a small business that’s renting some space in one of their department areas or one of their shopping malls, the fact that the department can audit this guy’s books, Dominic’s books and try to ascertain how profitable or not his business is to then make decisions, that’s just outrageous isn’t it? The party of small business should want to end that, surely.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I know Dominic and I know his father very well. They’re very decent people and they’ve been here for 22 years at Aussies and I think they’ve done very well out of the business. Whether the DPS is doing the right thing is a matter for the DPS. I don’t know if being able to look at the books of one of the businesses who rents from you is part of the normal architecture in the business community. I’m not across that level of detail of it. I’m very focused on defence industry and not focussed on the conditions upon which small businesses rent their properties from larger businesses or in this case the Government.

PETER VAN ONSELEN: Alright we’ll have to get the Small Business Minister – the new Small Business Minister Michael McCormack on the program for that one. Christopher Pyne, always appreciate you finding the time to chat to us here on NewsDay, thanks for your company.

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