Capital Hill
02 Dec 2013
Transcipt SUBJECT: The Coalition’s fairer and national funding agreement for schools
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Christopher Pyne, welcome to Capital Hill.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Thank you.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
You said last week the cupboard was bare, that the money couldn't be found. Where have you found it?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I always said that following the election I'd hoped that I'd be able to find more money. So on Tuesday, I announced $230 million for Queensland, Northern Territory and Western Australia so that their students were first-class students rather than the second-class students that Bill Shorten had left them. And then I've spent much of the last eleven weeks talking about the Northern Territory, Queensland and Western Australia, and between Tuesday and yesterday, I found enough savings that I think will be acceptable.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Savings in your own portfolio?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well, we all have to make our contribution but I think MYEFO will confirm and reveal where the savings are coming from, that meant that I could put $1.2 billion into schools, $1.2 billion that Bill Shorten ripped out…
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Presumably though you weren't going to the Treasurer saying I'd like to ask someone else to find this money?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well, where the money's coming from will be revealed from MYEFO. The truth is that Bill Shorten ripped $1.2 billion away from schools and we've put $1.2 billion back in, which means not only kept our election promises we've exceeded them by $1.2 billion which is great news for students around Australia.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
The Prime Minister says you have an in-principle agreement with Western Australia, Queensland and the Northern Territory. When will you get a proper agreement?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
What we've agreed with the three unfunded jurisdictions under Labor was that the SRS will apply in those States and Territories.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
In full as it does in other States?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
The Commonwealth will make - it was the same deal that Labor offered them before the election then took off the table.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Because they didn't sign this?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
There will be a national school funding model, something Bill Shorten didn't deliver. Our model will cover every State and Territory, the Catholics and Independents which is something Bill Shorten didn't deliver and it will mean $1.2 billion more spending on schools. I know that's very hard for Labor to take. But the truth is that the Commonwealth, the Coalition, is spending more on schools than Labor would've if they'd been re-elected.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
The States that did sign agreements with the Labor Party committed to indexing their funding by 3%. Is there any requirement on Western Australia, Queensland or the Northern Territory to do that?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Of course there will be requirements on all those jurisdictions.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
The 3%, the same amount?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Along the same lines as was offered to them before the election. But what we won't be doing is the red tape and regulation that Labor wanted to attach to the new school funding model which made compliance costly and time consuming for schools, State and Territories and systems. We won't be having federal inspectorates in schools or national implementation plans written by the Minister or a new school performance institute.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
If you remove those strings, how do you ensure that the States and Territories implement the model as you want them to?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I'm very confident that the States and Territories will implement the model as it's been presented to them before the election and since the election.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Any requirement on them to do that?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Labor didn't have any deals with Western Australia, Queensland or the Northern Territory. They had none. And the State where they had a signed agreement, South Australia, is a good example, they made an agreement with South Australia, Jay Wetherill's just announced that he is taking $230 million away from education in that State between now and 2017. So States and Territories have to be treated as adult governments. The Commonwealth will do its bit and no school can be worse off from anything that the Commonwealth does because we have put more money in, the States and Territories though, they make the final decisions about their schools.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
They can cost shift if they like, they can take money out if they like, there's nothing you will put in the agreement that will stop them doing that?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I don't want to treat the States like children. They are adult governments. They're sovereign governments. They're sovereign governments. They have their own voters. If States take money away from education that the Commonwealth's giving them, they will be punished at the ballot box.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Can't you say this is taxpayers' money, we want to you spend it on schools, we want to make sure you spend it on schools and write in a requirement that they do that?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
There will be proper transparency and accountability measures but perhaps people are not hearing what I'm saying. We're going to treat the States and Territories like adult governments, not Canberra-central command and control.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Tony Abbott promised on August 2 that no school would be worse off. That wasn't a "no school will be worse off as a result of Commonwealth spending". Are you effectively saying you can't keep that promise, you can only keep it to the extent that Commonwealth funding will go to schools?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well…
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Or will go to States and then States also spend the money how they see fit?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
New South Wales has applied the new model, 200 schools were worse off in that State.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
And 2,000 were better off?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Neither the union nor anybody else complained about that when New South Wales announced their new model based on the Commonwealth's model. I'm not sure why the Coalition has to make a guarantee over something that we can't in the end control. States and Territories apply the model but I can make this guarantee: no State School can be worse off from anything the Commonwealth does because we're putting more money in than Labor would've if they'd been re-elected.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Is it still your intention to negotiate a new funding model to apply from 2015 onwards?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
We'll keep the model for the next four years. We've given that commitment for certainty there is a review built into the current system that starts in 2015 and of course, we will keep our election promise which was that we would remove the central command and control features that were built in by the previous Labor Government that we thought were too much red tape, too much regulation, too much cost and compliance.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
So you won't any longer seek to renegotiate that funding model. Why not?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
There will effectively be a better model because we are removing the red tape and regulation from Labor's offering, and it's a better model because we're putting more money in, $1.2 billion more money in, $1.2 billion more money in that Bill Shorten ripped out.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
How can you ensure that it's a national model, that it's a national model, that it's the same in each State and Territory, if you're not requiring the States to put in the money the way that you want it to? Can’t States not take the money then spend it exactly as they see fit on the model they want?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
No. But in the agreements that Labor signed, every State and Territory has a different rate of indexation and every State and Territory has a different percentage of the student resource standard that they're supposed to reach over a period of time. So there's a national model, because all the States and Territories have signed up to it that I have delivered. I've delivered the national model that Bill Shorten never did. But people need to understand the facts and the facts are that every State and Territory that's already signed an agreement has a different rate of indexation and different percentage to reach the SRS.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Do you accept you've had several different positions over the last week that you couldn't find the money to put back the $1.2 billion, that you could find a bit for 2014 only, you've now found all of it, you were going to renegotiate a new funding model, now you're not going to renegotiate a new funding model. What's been going on for the last week?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Where you end up is more important than where you start. The most important thing is where you finish the race not where you started the race. The most important thing is that students around Australia can look forward to $1.2 billion of extra spending that wouldn't have been delivered if Labor had been elected. We now have a national model that includes Western Australia, the Northern Territory and Queensland which Labor didn't deliver. I think it's a very good outcome for the education system.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Is this a model you believe in?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I believe in getting funds to students but I also believing in moving the debate towards teacher quality a robust curriculum, principal autonomy and parental engagement. Money isn't everything in education. What we teach our students, how we teach them and who teaches them is as important if not more important.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
And you will make those decisions from Canberra, how that happens?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
We will do everything we can to support our students to get the best results possible.
LYNDAL CURTIS:
Christopher Pyne, thank you very much for your time.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Pleasure.
Ends