ABC AM

E&OE TRANSCRIPT Interview – ABC AM with Chris Uhlmann Monday 13 October 2014 SUBJECT: Release of the review of the Australian Curriculum CHRIS UHLMANN: Back to basics – that’s the way the Abbott Government is selling its mooted changes to national school curriculum. The plan will focus on teaching literacy and numeracy in the early years. It’s also calling for decluttering a syllabus which demands that engagement with Asia, sustainability and indigenous culture be embedded in every subject. Christopher Pyne is the Education Minister. Good morning. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning, Chris. CHRIS UHLMANN: Christopher Pyne, if these plans are accepted, what will be the focus of the core curriculum? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, the core curriculum will continue to focus around English, history, maths and science. The difference will be that in primary school years there will be a focus on literacy and numeracy and getting the basics right before children emerge into senior school. There’s a lot of common sense in this review around trying to get more depth rather than breadth in primary school, around engaging parents more in their children’s education and in making the themes fit the curriculum rather than the other way around making the curriculum try and fit the themes. CHRIS UHLMANN: Now you want to declutter the curriculum and focus on what’s essential, but here your reviews don’t actually agree, do they? One wants to focus on reading, writing and arithmetic, while the other wants to court the English, maths, science and history, CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Yes, that’s right – that’s an option for the education ministers to consider, whether they want to go just to literacy and numeracy in the first three years or whether they want to continue with maths and science, English and history. But obviously the much more decluttered way focussing on content rather than trying to make every piece of curriculum fit aboriginal, our place in Asia and sustainability. CHRIS UHLMANN: Do you have a preference between those two? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’ve released an initial Australian Government response because I don’t want the education ministers to feel that this isn’t a collaborative effort. I really want this curriculum to be the best it can be in the world and I don’t want the education minister, who in the end, run all the schools to decide that they’re not going to be part of a cooperative approach. So I’m not going to try and put my opinion publicly about these issues, but I will sit down with the education ministers and work through what’s best and of course with the Australian curriculum reporting authority because they are the ones who do the redrafting of the curriculum. But this is a very important review and it will make a big difference if most of its recommendations are [inaudible]. CHRIS UHLMANN: Now there are arguments, including by your reviewers that there was too much ideology embedded in the current curriculum, but isn’t ideological to argue or say that many argue that the place of religion, belief systems and values is not being addressed at the moment. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well you can’t have it both ways. That’s like saying because I got to the agenda first and decided what should be on it therefore if anyone comes along later they’re being ideological in trying to change it. Simple truth is that the review has found that there isn’t enough in the curriculum on Western civilisation, that sometimes Western civilisation is covered in a negative way, as an embarrassment rather than the positives around the rule of law and democracy and scientific research and the enlightenment et cetera, which are things we should be proud of. And they say that the curriculum should be balanced between Western civilisation and obviously the rich, important and diverse Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander history that we share. CHRIS UHLMANN: Understood, but when you call for more emphasis on morals, values and belief systems, they’re always going to be loaded, aren’t they? Shouldn’t that be left up to parents? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The review also says that there needs to be more sex education in schools because it’s the one neutral place where young people can find information about their sexuality, about drugs and so on, whereas at home and amongst their friends they often get a very biased opinion. CHRIS UHLMANN: When will the change come do you think? Not 2015 as you’d hoped? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, I think it’s too late for 2015. I hope it’ll be 2016 and I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t, but we don’t want to get the cart before the horse. We have to get the education ministers to agree that curriculum needs to be altered in a positive way and that might well take time. I hope that they’ll want to work collaboratively with me to bring it about. CHRIS UHLMANN: And should the body that developed the curriculum – the Australian Curriculum Assessment Authority – be responsible for reviewing it? Isn’t that a conflict of interest? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The Australian Curriculum Reporting Authority will need to make changes based on this review should they be agreed to. And they are the correct authority to implement any changes to the curriculum because they are responsible for it. CHRIS UHLMANN: Now looking at what the premiers want though, don’t the premiers want more money and aren’t they still insisting that you aren’t giving them enough and that you should honour the full six year funding commitment from Gonski? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Look, that’s a very old argument. CHRIS UHLMANN: It’s pretty new to them, isn’t it? And they want to continue it. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, look, this curriculum review is about improving the outcomes of students, it’s not about money. We’re putting eight per cent more money into education every year for the next three years and six per cent in the fourth year. Schools are awash with extra funds from the Commonwealth Government, in fact we’re putting $1.2 billion more in than Labor would have if they had been re-elected. CHRIS UHLMANN: But that's not the way that the states are seeing it at all, is it? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: This is not an opportunity to re-open the funding debate, it really is. It's a bit asinine in Australia that we can't discuss the curriculum without some voices immediately shouting for more money. There's a lot more to school education, including parental engagement, teacher quality, the curriculum itself then there is just about demanding more money. We are putting more money in, a great deal more money in, over the next four years than the last four years and schools have all the money they need to get the outcomes for our students. CHRIS UHLMANN: Look, on your higher education reforms, how are negotiations going with the minor parties? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well they're ongoing. The committee, Senate Committee is having hearings at the moment into the higher education bill, the reform bill, and I'm very hopeful that we'll get to our landing by the end of this year that brings about major change for the benefit of students and universities and I'm talking all the time to the crossbenchers and I find them to be very receptive. CHRIS UHLMANN: One last thing, as Education Minister and a South Australian, this will no doubt be of interest to you, The Australian National University has divested of investments in several companies including Santos and Iluka Resources, because it's pursuing what it calls an ethical investment strategy. Are the socially wayward companies in your view? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, they're not. CHRIS UHLMANN: And is there anything at all, as Education Minister that you can do about that? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Sadly, no. The universities govern themselves, but I do think that to suggest, companies like Santos and Iluka, which are both excellent companies, are somehow not ethical investment is a bizarre decision. CHRIS UHLMANN: Christopher Pyne, thank you. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Thank you. CHRIS UHLMANN: Christopher Pyne is the Education Minister. [ends]