ABC 891 Adelaide
04 Dec 2013
Transcipt E&OE TRANSCRIPT
ABC 891 Adelaide – Interview with Matthew Abraham and David Bevan, and Mark Butler
4 December 2013
SUBJECT: Government’s fair and national funding agreement
MARK BUTLER:
Good morning gentleman.
COMPERE:
And Christopher Pyne, Liberal MP for Sturt, he’s the Education Minister, in the Abbott Government, good morning to you Christopher Pyne.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Good morning Mathew, David and Mark.
COMPERE:
Mark Butler, after embarrassing the Government, helping to embarrass the Government into a backflip over education funding, is Labor itself now involved in its own backflip, that is you are not going to allow the education savings that Labor flagged, helped pay for Gonski, you are not going to let those through, that is a bit rough isn’t it?
MARK BUTLER:
Well look I think, I think the Government did enough by themselves to embarrass themselves into the backflip that The Australian put on the papers in very clear action over the course of Sunday night and Monday but you know what we have got from Christopher and from Tony Abbott is now the third position from the Government on education funding in two weeks.
COMPERE:
I think the question was to you, why would you make it harder to fund anything…
MARK BUTLER:
I’ll come to that, because the position, the position that Christopher has outlined in total funding is shy of $3 billion, it’s $2.8 or $2.9 billion from the Commonwealth over the course of the next four years. Our package was a total package of more than $14 billion, more than $9 of which would be contributed by the Commonwealth Government.
COMPERE:
In years five and six?
MARK BUTLER:
That’s right. And as part of that agreement, there were some savings decided by the Budget Committee of Cabinet when we were still in Government and published as savings that would be directed to the entire Gonski package. Now…Christopher…
COMPERE:
Now you are not going to sign off on those, in Senate?
MARK BUTLER:
If Christopher had signed up to the full package, $9 billion from the Commonwealth, then that would have be a different matter. But instead he has signed on to less than one third of the total funding that was committed by our Government. So why would we support … why would we support them to get this saving when they are going to deliver less than one third of savings to Australian schools.
COMPERE:
Well were those savings going to occur in the first four years?
MARK BUTLER:
Look the package was spread over six years…No, I don’t have the budget papers in front of me, David. I don’t have those resources now.
COMPERE:
Well… hang on.
MARK BUTLER:
It’s the total package.
COMPERE:
If you’re putting the hard word on the Government saying ‘oh you are going to get those savings because you are not delivering all of the money’, those savings planned by Labor $2.3 billion worth, if those savings were in the first four years, aren’t you entitled, aren’t they entitled to expect that you would pass them?
MARK BUTLER:
Well look, if you’d ask me to get the budget papers out we could go through it, I might be able to do that, I don’t have them in my head but this is a total package of over $9 billion that we’d announced to Australian schools and parents and students. And Christopher will deliver less than one third of that total Commonwealth contribution. Leaving aside all the other problems with the position Christopher outlined on Monday which is that States no longer have to co-invest, States can cut their schools funding while the Commonwealth is putting more money in, they don’t need to sign up to the reform elements of Gonski, namely the loadings that States will have to be a part of for disadvantaged schools. And the report that has been released this morning just reinforces the importance of that.
COMPERE:
Well let’s put that to Christopher Pyne. Is this fair cop, one good turn deserves another, Christopher Pyne?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well you were right David, it is savings over four years of the forward estimates, so you are quite correct. Mark Butler is entirely at sixes and sevens…
COMPERE:
Well is he correct that they are savings that were intended for the entire package, irrespective of when it was delivered?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
These savings were never linked at all to schools funding. They were savings that were going to consolidated revenue. It was simply spin from Labor that they were cutting our education to fund schools. The savings were over four years, the savings were going back into consolidated revenue that they… what Mark Butler is doing and what Labor is doing not content with trying to block the Coalition’s program on the Carbon Tax or debt ceiling, or Temporary Protection Visas, they are now blocking their own program. They are now voting against their own higher education cuts, they are giving the two fingered salute to the public on the Carbon Tax, now they are voting against their own cuts…
COMPERE:
Chris Pyne, is this because their part of their own package is unrecognisable even to you, that is, what is left of Gonski?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
The cuts to higher education, Matthew, were going back to consolidated revenue. They had nothing to do with schools, and what Labor has got themselves into a complete mess. They are voting against their own program. They are such a rabble of an Opposition, that are not just content with just voting against the Carbon Tax repeal, which the public voted for on September the 7th, or against stronger border protection then they are now siding with the Greens again on border protection, they are now voting against their own higher education cuts, they are a joke.
COMPERE:
Mark Butler, is it, why would you back away from this, is Chris Pyne correct that this was never intended for…
MARK BUTLER:
No…
COMPERE:
…education, that it was earmarked for general revenue?
MARK BUTLER:
If you go back, if you go back to the announcement when Prime Minister Gillard announced the Gonski package, it was quite clear that we had a Cabinet process that looked at the way in which we could find saves which would save the Gonski program. It was all set out in one press conference, in one set of documents, and it would ensure that the Commonwealth was able to find the money for its extra, almost, more than, $9 billion of extra funding to Australia’s school systems. If the money would go back…
COMPERE:
But are you saying…
MARK BUTLER:
If the money would go back into general revenue…
COMPERE:
Okay.
MARK BUTLER:
…that is where we fund schools from. But if you look at the documents that were released on that day, we announced the Commonwealth’s position, it was clear that we set as part of the way in which we would find more than $9 billion additional money, there would be some very difficult saves including this saving in higher education. Now if Christopher would sign up to the more than $ 9 billion, we probably would take a very different view but he hasn’t done that.
COMPERE:
Chris Pyne, Paul Kelly, editor-at-large, writes in The Australian today, it’s an exclusive, that you were given a letter by Tony Abbott that embodied the razor gang, the Expenditure Review Committee’s savings, that you were handed the proverbial sandwich on Gonski and then he says it became a train wreck, because of the way you mishandled it? Is that correct?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well I won’t be commenting on any speculative pieces in the newspaper.
COMPERE:
Very well informed by the looks of it, I mean Paul Kelly is not a light weight.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
No he certainly is not a light weight. He is a very respected journalist, but that still doesn’t mean I will be commenting on speculative pieces in the newspaper. Suffice to say we are putting $1.2 billion into education that Labor ripped out in the Pre-election Fiscal Outlook which means we will be delivering more money for school students and I have delivered a national agreement.
MARK BUTLER:
Well I think Paul Kelly deals with that falsehood very clearly, doesn’t he Christopher, if you read the article he deals with this falsehood you’ve been pedalling about the $1.2 billion very, very clearly.
COMPERE:
Christopher Pyne…
MARK BUTLER:
Very clearly.
COMPERE:
Christopher Pyne, is Tony Abbott absolutely determined you are going to sit right up to Christmas if you have to?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
We are absolutely determined to abolish the Carbon Tax, because we were elected on that platform…
COMPERE:
What’s the point, what’s the point? Because the Greens and Labor aren’t going to pass it, you can sit there right through til Easter and it wouldn’t make any difference.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
We have, that is a matter for Bill Shorten. He is the only person standing between $550 per household in savings from abolishing the Carbon Tax being delivered to them. The shear…
COMPERE:
Mark Butler, is there any point, are you fellas just going to dig in so they can sit right through to Easter and it wouldn’t make it any difference?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Our position is still very clear, we are happy to support the abolition of the Carbon Tax if something sensible replaces it. We still have no detail about the policy that the Coalition would put in place. All of our very strong reservations about it, it has no cap on carbon pollution, many other reservations, haven’t been addressed by the Government at all. So look ultimately it is up to the Senate whether they sit any more before, before Christmas or even in the New Year, but our position is very clear and that is a very sensible position to ensure that we have a strong position on climate change. … the abolition of the carbon, well we’re not digging in, we’re sticking in our position we argued very clearly at the election campaign and maintained since then.
COMPERE:
Mark Butler, thank you. Federal Labor MP for Port Adelaide, he is Opposition spokesperson on the environment, And Christopher Pyne is Liberal MP for Sturt and he’s Education Minister and Leader of the House, thank you to you, Christopher Pyne.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
That’s a pleasure.
Ends