ABC 891

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Interview - ABC 891 Adelaide with Matthew Abraham and David Bevan
9 April 2014

SUBJECTS: Submarines; Daniel Morcombe Foundation.

COMPERE:

 

Good morning to you, Mark Butler, Labor MP for Port Adelaide.

MARK BUTLER:

Good morning.

COMPERE:

And Opposition environment and climate change spokesman.  And Chris Pyne, on the phone, Liberal MP for Sturt. Education Minister. Chris Pyne, good morning to you.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Good morning Matthew, and David, and Mark.

COMPERE:

Mark Butler, you are the member for Port Adelaide.  You worried about those jobs at Osborne?

MARK BUTLER:

Well deeply worried now.  Last year after some extended period of time, wondering what the Coalition’s position about the submarines, the next generation of submarines was, we got a very clear commitment from the then-Opposition defence spokesperson that there would be twelve submarines built here in Port Adelaide.  A commitment repeated by the now Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, at the time.  And then only a few weeks ago in February, I think when the Defence Minister was here for the second Destroyer at Osborne, again we got that commitment that there were now only two options, an evolved Collins or sometimes called a ’son of Collins-class’ or a completely new design and that the commitment made by the Liberal Party last year would stick so there was a level of comfort finally that the jobs, the retention of skills, which as Jack Snelling said is not only as important from a jobs point of view, but it is important for a national security point of view, was locked in and was a question of when and whether it was going to be a son of Collins or a brand new design and would move forward. And suddenly yesterday I think everybody is in a state of shock that this commitment appears to be at risk of being thrown out of the window.

COMPERE:

Chris Pyne, Liberal MP for Sturt, Education Minister, what word from your side of the ditch re the submarines?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well Mark is being particularly brazen in his famed outrage about no decision that has been made or announced. Because of course Labor was in power for six years, and in those six years made no progress whatsoever about building the next generation of submarines in Adelaide, simply kept announcing tens of billions of dollars of defence spending by the way, which never actually happened. Just produced more and more papers and white papers and research documents, promising the people of South Australia tens of billions of dollars of spending on defence infrastructure but never actually made any progress to do so.

COMPERE:

A history lesson.  You have been at great pains to point out; the people of Australia dealt with that Government at the last election so you are now running the show.  Is there any reason, any reason at all, why we should doubt the word of the Prime Minister that we will get twelve subs?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well both Labor and Liberal said before the election that we wanted to build twelve submarines.  We didn’t actually say that we would definitely build twelve submarines, and we haven’t by the way announced that we aren’t going to.  So we are dealing at the moment in hypotheticals which is important to remember. But any sensible government would recognise their defence needs in the future. The good news is that the six Collins-class defence submarines are performing at their peak after many years of being much maligned by defence experts.  So we have six very usable and very effective submarines and now of course we have to consider what we will build for the next generation.

COMPERE:

Let’s be quite clear here.  You are saying that the government never, that the National Party, the Liberal National Party Coalition, never promised to build twelve, all you said is you want to build twelve?  Is that what you say happened?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, David, we made exactly the same commitment as Labor did.  Which was that we would consider the need for the navy and our defence and also what we could afford and we wanted to build twelve submarines which is exactly what Labor promised.

MARK BUTLER:

Well we made a very clear commitment, ours wasn’t an inspiration. We made the commitment.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

But you never did anything about it.

MARK BUTLER:

…and we spent a very significant period of time and energy narrowing down the options, looking very closely whether there was an off the shelf option around the world that would suit Australia’s needs.  We need a non-nuclear option, there aren’t many of them.  We needed a long range option, a deep water option and we came to the view that your spokesperson, Christopher, backed in that there wasn’t any off the shelf option…

COMPERE:

There is a big difference between saying ‘oh we want to build twelve’, and ‘we will build twelve’.

MARK BUTLER:

Well we made a very clear commitment.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

There is, exactly.

MARK BUTLER:

We made a very clear commitment that we would be twelve and we narrowed it down to two options, a son of Collins or a brand new design.  And Christopher is right, we spent a significant period of time and amount of energy looking at whether the Collins-class could be sustained for longer and that review which we initiated was release yesterday to show that that could happen.  At the end of the day it doesn’t change a commitment for twelve subs. It was bipartisan and Tony Abbott is walking away from it.

COMPERE:

Chris Pyne, Tory Shepherd helpfully on Twitter said the Coalition, ‘hey Kev Corduroy’, that’s my Twitter handle, ‘the Coalition changed it to an aspiration four days before the election’.  Is that correct?  It became an aspiration to have the subs?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well an aspiration is another way of saying that we wanted to build twelve submarines at Osborne.

COMPERE:

But not another way of saying we would.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Correct.  But neither did Labor.  By the way, just to rebut what Mark said, Labor was throwing around spending promises like confetti before the last election.  And for the previous six year because I assume that they thought they weren’t going to be Government and they were never going to be held responsible for those promises.  But we are an adult responsible government, which have to consider the defence needs of the nation, but also what we afford. Luckily Adelaide is extremely well placed to build whatever the Government announces what we will be doing in the future.  Because we are the pre-eminent defence ship-building state and therefore we will get the full benefit of whatever government policy announces.

COMPERE:

Chris Pyne, in the last Federal Liberal Government in South Australia, South Australia was represented by senior ministers who went in to bat for South Australia.  What made sure we got defence projects.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

I’m the equal of four Cabinet ministers and I am doing a very good job doing my best for South Australia.  The Iron Road announcement that we made on the weekend, on the Eyre Peninsula, which is a massive injection into our state’s economy.

COMPERE:

Do you think some people may think that it seems bit relaxed now, the Federal Coalition’s view on what can be done in Adelaide?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

No. I don’t think that’s the case. I think that the fact that one Cabinet Minister is the equal of the four in the Howard Government speaks volume for Tony Abbott’s view that I can well represent South Australia’s interests.

COMPERE:

Well maybe you’re not.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

I might tell you that during the…

COMPERE:

Maybe you’re not…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

I think I am.  If you want to be rude and insulting, good luck to you.

COMPERE:

No I am just asking. Maybe you are not. Because Holden was shown the door…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well Holden wasn’t shown the door. Holden made it absolutely clear that no amount of money from the Federal Government would have kept them in South Australia and they made that announcement themselves and as you well know so nobody from Holden was shown the door. Now Mark Butler and Penny Wong, were Cabinet Ministers during the last Government and I’d ask you to point to all of their extraordinary achievements.  Holden was lost. Ford was lost.

MARK BUTLER:

I can tell you our commitments were…

 

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Submarines weren’t built, the submarines didn’t’ even get off the drafting table under Wong and Butler. So if you want to be insulting, good luck to you but quite frankly I would rather deliver achievements for South Australia as I am quietly and carefully going about doing.

MARK BUTLER:

Well we can easily speak for four Cabinet Ministers, if I could get a word in. We gave a commitment that there would be twelve subs and they would be built here in South Australia, it wasn’t an aspiration. And you have now changed it to South Australia being well placed to build the submarines here.  We made a rock solid commitment they would be built here in Adelaide…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

You never did anything about it, ever.

MARK BUTLER:

We did.  We did.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

No you didn’t.

MARK BUTLER:

We did. And you are working off the back of a lot of the work we did to narrow the options down to put in place a sustainment review of the life of the Collins submarines so don’t make things up and say we didn’t do anything. We had a very clear process.

COMPERE:

Now the Australian Strategic Policy Institute is tweeting, this is as the speech is going on, that Minister Johnston affirms that the Government will make decisions based on defence imperatives, not industry imperatives. And the Collins class submarines he has earlier said, according to ABC News on Twitter, are performing very well at the moment. Chris Pyne, we made a promise to Bruce Morcombe, father of the murdered Sunshine Coast boy Daniel Morcombe, he is in Adelaide today to launch the Rose to raise money for the Daniel Morcmobe Foundation, that we would ask you this, they want their child’s safety strategy and platform put in to the National Curriculum.  You said you would like to see that.  Is there any progress being made on that?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well I’ve met many times with Denise and Bruce Morcombe and obviously what I think all fathers, and I am a father of four children, anybody who meets with the Morcombe can’t help but be significantly moved by their extraordinary courage and stoicism in the face of absolutely shocking tragedy that has befallen their family. And they have put together a tremendous child safety programme. I have written to the National Curriculum reviewers, Ken Wiltshire and Kevin Donnelly asking them to consider the appropriateness of including this in the curriculum.  Whether it becomes part of the curriculum or whether it becomes a programme that the States operate in their schools is, of course, a moot point and not really important.  The important point is that child safety programmes are taught in schools and the Morcombes have a very good one.  At the end of the day the child safety programmes are to be taught in schools are a matter for the State and Territory governments but I have written to all of my federal colleagues including Mark encouraging them to promote the Morcombe’s programme because I think it has great merit.

COMPERE:

And just quickly, Mark Butler on…

MARK BUTLER:

Well, I agree this should be referred to the people overseeing the National Curriculum.  There is great value from these tragic experiences what parents learn.  The Morcombes and here in South Australia, Sonya Ryan’s online safety programmes and that process I think is the right one.

COMPERE:

Okay, look thank you very much Mark Butler, Labor MP for Port Adelaide and Chris Pyne Liberal MP for Sturt, Education Minister and Mark Butler is Climate Change spokesman.

[ends]