ABC 891

E&OE TRANSCRIPT ABC 891 Adelaide 19 March 2014 SUBJECT: South Australian State Election COMPERE: Mark Butler is the Labor MP for Port Adelaide and climate change spokesman for the Shorten Opposition, good morning Mark Butler. MARK BUTLER: Good morning gentleman. COMPERE: And Chris Pyne, Liberal MP for Sturt. He’s the Education Minister in the Abbott Government, good morning to you Christopher Pyne. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning gentleman. COMPERE: Chris Pyne, did you think a week ago that the Liberal Party would be sitting around biting its nails trying to be friendly all of a sudden to Bob Such and hoping against hope that it would be able to at least form minority government? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I always thought that the election was a mountain to climb because we needed to win six seats to form government in our own right, but we have won 53 per cent of the two-party preferred vote and I think it’s stunning that the Labor Party think this is something to be celebrated, that they are clever, how clever they have been to win 23 seats with 47 per cent of the two-party preferred vote. In other words, Labor thinks that a dirty tricks and gaming the system mean that they should be rewarded. Now one of the reasons that why one of the independents I hope will come to the Coalition is because Labor needs to learn a lesson that you know if you don’t get a majority of the votes you shouldn’t form government and you certainly shouldn’t congratulate yourself on getting more seats on the basis of you know, where the boundaries are drawn. COMPERE: Mark Butler? MARK BUTLER: Well I don’t understand how running strong local campaigns is somehow gaming the system. I mean I think the key reasons why we did so much better than I think any of the commentators predicted we would do, the key reason why we are still leading in 23 seats is the campaign ran over many months by the Premier. Jay presented a very clear and detailed plan for South Australia, compared to Steven Marshall who followed the Liberal Party small target approach that has been fashionable frankly across Australia. I mean Jay regularly presented for media conferences while Steve Marshall was regularly hidden from media conferences including importantly I think in the last week. And Jay had a track record of standing up for South Australia while…. COMPERE: Well he was in a doozy in a scare campaign… MARK BUTLER: It became increasingly clear… COMPERE: Or he ran a doozy of a scare campaign… MARK BUTLER: That might be your view. COMPERE: No I am asking if that was a possibility. MARK BUTLER: No I don’t think it was. I think Jay presented a clear picture about the challenges facing South Australia over the next four years in particular and a plan from Labor to deal with those challenges and exploit some of those extraordinary opportunities, but what became increasingly clear was that the most inexperienced and untested person ever to present for the job at Premier had no plan and had no capacity or willingness to stand up for South Australia when it counts, particularly to stand up against Tony Abbott. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But if that’s true, Mark, how come Steven Marshall achieved 53 per cent of the two-party preferred vote, and you didn’t. I mean, you lost the popular vote. The way you are talking you are completely ignoring the fact that actually Labor got less votes by a huge margin in fact, than the Liberal Party did and in any other state that would have led in a thumping victory. You are just pretending somehow that you won the election. MARK BUTLER: But the fact is the system works on the basis of how many seats, how many votes you can command in the House of Assembly. And that’s still got a way to go, there is still votes to be counted but at the moment, we are leading in the 23 seats. There is lots of howling at the moment about… COMPERE: Mark Butler, the system is designed that if you win more than 50 per cent of the two-party preferred vote, you get more than 50 per cent of the seats. COMPERE: It has failed to do that, time after time after time. Is it time to look at a new system? MARK BUTLER: Well let’s get through this week. But this was a system that was pressed upon us by the Liberal Party more than twenty years ago, a Commission of the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court judge, the Electoral Commissioner and the Surveyor-General, sets the boundaries based on the votes of last time, but you still have to run good local campaigns… COMPERE: Mark Butler, I was covering politics in that election when John Olsen got the majority of the vote… MARK BUTLER: The ’89 election? COMPERE: Yes. I was covering politics in it, that’s how old I am. And Mark Butler, John Bannon reformed the system because the huge embarrassment… MARK BUTLER: Yes. COMPERE: And the fact that he formed government with a minority of the vote quite handsomely... It wasn’t forced on them by the Liberal Party. MARK BUTLER: No, no but… COMPERE: And the Attorney-General Chris Sumner was an honourable man who could see that the system had not worked properly. So rather than saying it was forced on you by the Libs, he did the right thing. MARK BUTLER: Absolutely they did but the particular model that we have in our Constitution after a referendum is the model that was presented by the Liberal Party. COMPERE: Yeah. And Mark Butler, if there was another piece of legislation that was designed to make things fair and it had comprehensively failed, you would want to fix it, wouldn’t you? MARK BUTLER: Well look let’s have this discussion after this week. We ran an election based on the system that has been in place for more than twenty years. COMPERE: For sixteen of those, without the popular vote… MARK BUTLER: The Commission sets the boundaries based on the votes delivered at the last election. But you still have to run local campaigns. And I think we were gobsmacked frankly at the weakness of the local efforts, yet again, by the Liberal Party, by their campaigns in local seats. COMPERE: Chris Pyne, Mark Butler makes a very good point doesn’t he? The Commission can’t help it if the Liberal Party fails to run good marginal seat campaigns. That’s not the Commission’s fault. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I don’t think that is a good point. I mean, in the late ‘60s the Labor Party used to howl, howl about the way the boundaries were drawn in South Australia and they said we won with less than 50 per cent of the two-party preferred vote. Now Mark Butler wants to be congratulated over Labor’s cleverness in winning with less than fifty percent of the two-party preferred voted. COMPERE: How would you fix the problem, how would you reform the system? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well obviously the boundaries have not been drawn in a way that delivers exactly what you said before David which is that if a party wins 50 per cent of the vote plus one, they should win fifty per cent plus one of the seats? That is in the legislation. COMPERE: Chris Pyne, isn’t the flaw in your argument however that the two seats that you are now desperately trying to scramble back should be Liberal seats, that is Bob Such’s seat, and that is Geoff Brock’s seat? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I would entirely leave the negotiations with the two independents… COMPERE: No, I am not talking about that. I am just saying that if they were Liberal seats as they should be, I mean there is nothing the Electoral Commission can do of the fact that factionally you annoyed Bob Such to the point that he ran as an independent. And that Rob Kerin decided… CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I didn’t. COMPERE: No. MARK BUTLER: He was one of Christopher’s allies, I think. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He is a very good man, by the way. COMPERE: The Evans clan annoyed him to the point where he ran as an independent, and the fact that Rob Kerin decided that a by-election would be a good time because he thought it would be a good time to get out of politics. MARK BUTLER: That’s not the Electoral Commissioner’s fault. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I hope that the two estimable gentleman that you have mentioned, Geoff Brock and Bob Such, will both take all these things into account when they make their decision about which party to support because I think they will because they are both fair men, and recognise that the Liberal Party won 53 per cent of the two-party preferred vote. But I don’t want to interfere in how they make their decisions, but I am sure they will weigh up all of those considerations. COMPERE: Mark Butler, a week ago we showed you the Habib letter that was being distributed by your party in the seat of Elder. You said ‘oh I haven’t had time to look at it’. Well you have now had a week to consider it. Do you support its distribution? MARK BUTLER: Look I have seen a range of pieces of commentary about the pamphlet there, since then. And there has been a range of opinions about it. I must say I haven’t applied my mind particular to it since the week and I think that in due course there obviously will be opportunity for all sides to reflect of different aspects of their campaign. COMPERE: That’s something Yes Minister would say. I just asked you whether you support its distribution? MARK BUTLER: Well for example, Tony Abbott’s quite unprecedented decision to use our Defence Force at Edinburgh as a stage prop for a political event last week, complete with Liberal Party backdrop. COMPERE: Mark Butler, why won’t you answer this question? MARK BUTLER: Our focus this week is… COMPERE: Is it because you feel uncomfortable about that letter? MARK BUTLER: Our focus this week is on dealing with the job at hand. It is a very significant job, we have got… CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Answer the question. MARK BUTLER: You don’t actually have a job as an ABC questioner, Christopher. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I might. COMPERE: We like letting people answer, Chris Pyne. COMPERE: Mark Butler, Penny Wong is getting up and making speeches about racism and how it needs to be dealt with, even racism that might be in the form of whistle-blowing, I’m not sure she used that term but that’s what she’s talking about, overt and covert racism. So let’s be very strong on this stuff, why won’t you come out and speak against it? MARK BUTLER: Of course we will and in due course we will reflect on a range of aspects of the campaign. We are making the point that the Liberal Party should reflect on a range of aspects of their campaign as well. We have a job at hand this week to do with a number of seats… COMPERE: Is that because a good old dog whistling works? MARK BUTLER: No the point I have made is that the stories last week actually gave Ms Habib a very significant profile, she was offended by the pamphlet and I think we all regret that she as offended but I think in the cold light of day, we will all reflect on aspects of our respective campaigns. We have got a job to do this week and we will focus on that. COMPERE: Christopher Pyne, should Arthur Sinodinos step down? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I am happy to answer that question, but just before I would like to rebut that was just said… COMPERE: You better be quick. MARK BUTLER: The Liberal Party backdrop? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: In 2010 Labor pretended to be Family First volunteer and handed out dodgy How-To-Vote cards. In 2014 they distributed… MARK BUTLER: Oh come on Christopher, answer about Sinodinos. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: …these filthy leaflets… after the event they are full of regret. COMPERE: Chris Pyne, you know we are running up to the news, should Arthur Sinodinos step aside while the ICAC considers his evidence and others? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. COMPERE: Chris Pyne, thank you for talking to us. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Pleasure. COMPERE: Federal Liberal MP for Sturt and Education Minister. Mark Butler, Labor MP for Port Adelaide, opposition environment spokesman. [ends]