ABC 891

SUBJECT/S: Union Corruption, Border Protection COMPERE: Mark Butler the big news this morning in national affairs is the announcement of a broader Royal Commission into corrupt unions. You used to run a union, what’s your response to this? MARK BUTLER: Well I can tell you as one who has been involved in the union any member of the community will be pretty shocked and appalled at the allegations that have come out about unions in Melbourne and Sydney, I think, by and large, and potential links to organised crime and bikie gangs. These are allegations that should be and I think are being handed over to the proper authorities…. COMPERE: Does it show it was a mistake, for the Rudd Gillard Government, to abolish the Australian Building and Construction Commission because, one of the commissioners, one of the former commissioners says here it changed the conduct of the construction industry for the better, he tells the Australian piece today, when it was abolished by the Rudd Gillard Government unlawful conduct returned with a vengeance. Are we now not seeing that? MARK BUTLER: No I think there is still a division of fair work Australia that is devoted to the construction industry. They have powers that don’t apply to any other industry. We tripled the penalties in the fair work act, the penalties that have been introduced by Tony Abbott when he was Minister for industrial relations minister, we tripled them for misconduct or breaches of the law by trade unions or registered employer organisations. So I think these are very serious allegations but instead of playing politics with them and seeking to demonise an entire movement potentially the government should get about applying the existing laws because the laws are more than capable of dealing with these allegations, so... COMPERE: Christopher Pyne, Education Minister, do you concede that the industry can be regulated with existing police powers and the fair work act. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No I don’t, the Australian Building and Construction Commission that was abolished by the Rudd-Gillard Governments was established because after the Cole Royal Commission it became very apparent that the building and construction industry needed particular attention. Labor immediately moved to abolish that, to do the bidding of their union masters and now we’re seeing the results of that. Labor continues to oppose its reintroduction and voted against the Australian Building and Construction Commission in the Parliament at the end of last year and today they are opposing, if we do go down the path of a Royal Commission, they are already opposing a Royal Commission into corrupt practices in the building and construction industry. While I hear what Mark Butler says about shocked and appalled everybody is, if Labor is so shocked and appalled why do they continue to oppose the re-establishment of the Australian Building and Construction Commission and potentially a Royal Commission. COMPERE: Will you have the numbers in the Senate, when the new senators take their place in a few months time, to reintroduce an ABCC? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I certainly hope so, and we’ll be working with the cross benchers in the Senate to bring that about, but Labor could change their mind and vote to re-establish the Australian Building and Construction Commission when the Parliament sits in February if they were genuinely shocked and appalled by the practices of some unions they would do so. But of course they are not really shocked and appalled; they will continue to defend the practices of the unions because they are the political arm of the union movement. MARK BUTLER: Well that’s not right we won’t continue to defend those practices and it’s important to say that the changes we made to the Building and Construction Commission were not the changes that the ACTU and the relevant unions were asking us to make. The changes made were recommended by a former chief judge of the Federal Court, Justice Wilcox, and they fell far short of what the trade union movement wanted. There are still powers for the fair work inspectorate dealing with the building and construction industry that don’t apply to other industries and of course there is the criminal law. COMPERE: Christopher Pyne is the suggestion that this Royal Commission would only look at the building industry and unions or would it go beyond that to look at things like the Health Services Union or whatever. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well we haven’t announced a Royal Commission along the lines that’s being reported in the papers, this is speculation, but I assume the gathering storm of public outrage about the practices in some unions, or the alleged practices of some union leaders will need close attention. COMPERE: And what’s that code for? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well if there is a Royal Commission it will need to be a comprehensive one that deals with alleged corruption and malpractice in the union movement and will reach into any union that is accused of such behaviour and I would hope that the Labor Party will support it but this morning they’re already opposing it. COMPERE: Chris Pyne, just quickly on this issue, if you don’t get the numbers in the existing senate from the Labor Party to re-form the ABCC would you say there’s no option than a Royal Commission because you can do that you don’t need the senate to approve that. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well that’s correct we can announce a Royal Commission without the Senate’s approval and that is a live option. Of course the Australian Building and Construction Commission legislation is sitting on the table and could be voted for by the Labor Party as soon as Parliament resumes on February 11th and if they genuinely wanted to clean up the union movement and the building and construction industry they would support it. But they don’t genuinely want to clean it up otherwise they wouldn’t have abolished it in the first place. COMPERE: It’s a week ago since the story broke of claims that perhaps naval personnel had been involved in somehow abusing asylum seekers and last Wednesday we both asked you the question do you find this credible given the reputation of the navy. A week on, Christopher Pyne? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I didn’t find it credible then and I don’t find it credible now and I remember Mark Butler had the same reaction as I did last Wednesday which was one of surprise, there’s obviously conflicting accounts. The Navy took great exception to this suggestion and I think they had what was a very plausible story which was that the asylum seekers were attempting to dismantle their own boat and burnt their hands in the process and the navy used first aid in order to address their wounds. There is an investigation into this of course the good news on the border protection is that we have not had a boat arrival in over a month which gives lie to the Labor party’s claim in Government that this was all about push factors not pull factors. MARK BUTLER: Well I don’t think my view has changed in regards to the allegations. I was gobsmacked by them, however there should be a proper investigation that will run its course. Really I’m surprised that Christopher would be bragging about his government’s record in the boats area, it’s quite clear, very clear that the drop off in boat arrivals started not when this government was elected but when Kevin Rudd negotiated the arrangement with PNG and since they were elected frankly this government’s handling of the issue has bordered on farce. Forgive the pun about bordering, but bordered on farce with secrecy by the minister, the increase in tensions with such an important neighbour Indonesia and I’m surprised that Christopher’s bragging about it. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’m surprised Mark Butler won’t give credit where credit’s due, for five years under the Labor Party we had 50,000 unauthorised arrivals. Under this government the number has dramatically dropped to a trickle and in the last five weeks there have been no boat arrivals but Labor continues to put its head in the sand. MARK BUTLER: Well credit where credit’s due Kevin Rudd started the arrangement that your government has continued to your credit and it has led to a very significant reduction in boat arrivals. COMPERE: And neither of you will not be surprised to learn that we’re two minutes from the news we need to move. Christopher Pyne thank you, Mark Butler thank you, we’ll catch you next week if not sooner, depending on the issues. Ends