ABC 891

SUBJECTS: Labor Leadership crisis; the Carbon Tax E&OE................................ Presenter: And Christopher Pyne, Liberal MP for Sturt, Shadow Minister for Education and Manager of Opposition Business in the House, good morning to you Christopher Pyne. Christopher Pyne: Good morning gentlemen. Presenter: Well we’re in the end days whatever happens with the Labor leadership, there’s only I think two, two and half days of Parliament to run, Mark Butler what is going to happen? Mark Butler: Well at the moment the status quo is that the Prime Minister intends to lead the Party to the election and Kevin Rudd has said that he’s not standing and now there’s all sorts of speculation swirling through the media and Parliament House as well, but at the moment it’s just speculation. So really we’re just getting on with the job, there’s still a furious amount of work to do in the last couple of days. The Senate has a lot of significant legislation still to consider in the next two days so you know we’re involved with negotiations with Senators about that. But there’s no question there’s a lot of speculation still swelling. Presenter: Do you think its possibility that there could be a ballot? Butler: Well you know there are a lot of people going on the media saying there should be a ballot, people who you wouldn’t consider to be in the Prime Minister’s camp and people you’d consider are in the former Prime Minister’s camp and people you’re not quite sure about, so anything’s possible but at this stage this is just speculation. Presenter: Have you sorted out what you will do if there is a ballot? Butler: No because at the moment I’m still focussed on doing my job…(inaudible) Presenter: You don’t know? You haven’t sat down and thought well gee a decision today on who should be running the country and I’ll put that off until the actual ballot is called on. Butler: The trouble is there’s so much speculation and so many polls that come in week in and week out. If we responded to all of them by sitting down and focussing on them every single day when a fit of speculation comes out…(inaudible) Presenter: I’m just asking you who you’re going to vote for if somebody asks you who should be Prime Minister. Butler: Well at the moment its speculation, I’m not buying into speculation. Obviously if there was a ballot I’d turn my mind to it very seriously, but at the moment its speculation which I’m not going to buy into. Presenter: (inaudible) So Julia Gillard has your full, abiding support between now and the next election, irrespective of ballots? Butler: I’ve said many times before I’m a proud and I think hardworking member of Julia Gillard’s team and I’m working in some very important social policy areas, which I’m very proud and privileged to work in. Presenter: Do you think these decisions by Rob Oakeshott not to contest the next election and Tony Windsor apparently came out today to say that he will not support a Rudd-led Government; do you think that is going to weigh heavily on the mind of Labor MPs? Butler: Look I’m don’t know what Tony Windsor has said, I’m not actually sure he’s said anything yet. There are some reports swirling around in the last 15 or 30 minutes about what he might say, but I as understand Rob Oakshott’s position, it is to resign from Parliament really after 17 years representing his community in the State Parliament of New South Wales and here. And he wants to get on and do other things and spend time with his family and I fully understand that. I don’t understand anything he has said relates to what might happen or might not happen inside the Labor Party. Presenter: Chris Pyne, are you prepared, is there a plan B for the Opposition if there is a Constitutional issue raised, if there is a leadership change. In other words, could Tony Abbott be Prime Minister by the end of the week, this has been spoken of and is the Opposition thinking about that, or are you too, just like Mark Butler worried about legislation and that’s the main job at hand. Pyne: Well the full hideousness of the Labor Party’s disintegration is on display this morning on your radio programme as Mark Butler desperately tries not to talk about leadership, but talk only about it. While this going on of course they’re not focussing on what the public want them to focus on and plan A, B and C is to focus on cost of living, getting the price of electricity down, job security, on stopping the boats and on sound economic management. We’re not going to enter into the parlour games that the Labor Party is playing here. I understand there is a petition being circulated right now by people out Chris Bowen and Kim Carr’s office and getting members to sign to call on a spill. There’s a list of Rudd supporters being presented to Kevin Rudd this morning, which Mark Butler’s name isn’t on that apparently we’re he’s going to try and be convinced to challenge Julia Gillard. The so-called reluctant candidate Kevin Rudd has been undermining Julia Gillard from the moment she became Prime Minister, is now playing Hamlet. Presenter: That’s quite a rant, have you seen this piece of paper? Pyne: I’m just going off the media reports and listening to Fran Kelly this morning on your Radio National. I’m sure Fran would be as accurate as anyone in this place, but unfortunately while all of this is happening, who is focussing on the issues that the public care about? It’s the Opposition. So we’re not planning on moving a no confidence motion because we are not playing the parliament game that they’ve been playing. Presenter: I think we may have lost sight of the original question… Pyne: perhaps, but… Presenter: I’ve lost sight of it, but it’s coming back to me now, it’s coming back to me now. Are you prepared to form government if you need too? It is a distinct possibility if Kevin Rudd does endure the support, if there is a leadership change. I know these are ‘ifs’… Pyne: Yes, if it comes to that I’m sure the Coalition would go straight to an election on August the 3rd and we would ensure that that would give the public an opportunity to make the decision about who the Prime Minister should be. I mean, what’s going on here in Canberra…. Presenter: So, what you’re saying is basically that Tony Abbott, you would need to legitimise that; that would almost be just a constitutional mechanism? Pyne: Well, the truth is, we don’t want the faceless men of the Labor Party choosing the Prime Minister yet again, we want the public to choose the Prime Minister. That is their right. And if the Government collapses, I’m sure the Coalition would go straight to the polls on August the 3rd and give the people the chance to get an adult government in the room that’s focussed on the issues they care about and Labor can have some time out in Opposition to work themselves out. Presenter: Mark Butler, are you aware of these pieces of paper that Christopher Pyne refers too being circulated this morning? Butler: No, No. That was very instructive. Look, there’s been all sorts of speculation about a petition that might be circulated. I’ve honestly not heard whether one is being prepared or not, there’s certainty been a lot of talk of it. But that’s all it is so far, as far as I know at least. Presenter: Mark Butler, Obama today has released a fairly comprehensive plan to deal with the issue of climate change and carbon emissions. From my reading though, it does not include a carbon tax. So where does that leave your government? Butler: Well, I think people are still getting through the detail of Obama’s speech but what is clear is that it is a speech very much focused on the job of reducing carbon emissions in the largest economy in the world. And reflects a very strong commitment by the president to undertake strong action on Climate Change, reflected in the Copenhagen commitments from a couple of years ago. I think in his speech, he points out that in his State of the Union Address some time ago he urged Congress to come up with a market based solution. An ETS solution to climate change, but congress has simply been unable to do that so… Presenter: He’s not able to get a cap and trade; he’s not able to get a carbon tax up… Butler: No, although that is clearly his preference. But rather than sit on his hands he’s going to take the sorts of action we are taking to sponsor renewable energy, to start to clean up some of the more emissions intensive energy plants in particular. But it’s clear that he would prefer an ETS and that remains his objective, but in the meantime he’s going to take what action he can, particularly to see emissions reduced in the energy sector. Presenter: Christopher Pyne, your leader, Tony Abbott has made it absolutely clear that he will repeal the carbon tax, within the first few months of forming government. But if that is blocked in a hostile Senate, how seriously committed is Tony Abbott to this? Would he go back and have another election, a double dissolution? Pyne: Well, two things. Firstly Barrack Obama today is announcing a direct action plan for reducing emissions – the same as the Coalition’s plan. Direct action, not a carbon tax because he doesn’t want a job destroying, Electricity rising tax… Presenter: Well, no. His congress won’t allow him to do it. Pyne: Well, thank goodness they didn’t because a carbon tax is the worst thing imaginable for the Australian economy and it would be for the US economy. Direct action will reduce emissions by the same rate as the Coalition’s policy and its Barak Obama’s policy. Secondly we would expect if we’re fortunate enough to win an election there’s no doubt it will be a referendum on the Carbon Tax. If Labor then wants to block that in the Senate and ignore the will of the Australian people yet again then we have no hesitation in saying that we will have a double dissolution election if necessary, to ensure the Carbon Tax is abolished, but I would be absolutely shocked if Labor wanted to have two elections on their disastrous Carbon Tax. Butler: Well it should be clear there are two groups in the world that I’m aware of who oppose a cap and trade scheme a market based solution to this that’s the Republican Party in the US and the Liberal Party, here in Australia. Obama was very clear that was his preference with the emissions trading scheme starting to be launched in very significant provinces and cities in China, its clearly been the consensus position for years, it was the position that Prime Minister Howard to took to the 2007 election, so I’m not sure that Christopher can take any particular solace from the position that President Obama has been forced into by the Republican Party. Presenter: I think it’s fair to say Mark Butler the Chinese emissions trading scheme and it’s not nationwide, is it? Pyne: Well once Butler: Well, it’s moving towards a nationwide Pyne: 2015 Shenzhen and one and all the permits are 100 per cent free so in fact it’s not a carbon tax like ours at all. So … (inaudible due to many voices) Presenter: Hang on, hang on. We’re having trouble working out who’s talking so Mark Butler Labor MP for Port Adelaide, it does set a price on carbon, yes? Butler: It does, it does. Presenter: And what is that price compared to Australia? Butler: It’s tradeable, look I don’t have the price. Pyne: Five dollars. Butler: But let’s be clear, the trading price for Australian companies is less than two dollars because they receive around ninety five per cent of their permits for free if they are trade exposed emissions intensive so you need to compare apples with apples here a whole range of other things …… Presenter: Mark Butler you’ve just, because we’re going to quickly run out of time, Mark Butler do you agree with Chris Pyne that if there is an overwhelming endorsement of the Coalition at the election, Labor will have to accept the, that this was a referendum on the Carbon Tax? Butler: What we’ll be taking to the election a Labor Party position to continue to take market based solution action on climate change; whoever is elected. Presenter: You couldn’t obstruct it in the Senate, could you? Butler: Whoever is elected, whoever is elected for the Labor Party will be elected on the basis of that position. Presenter: Okay, right. But if you believe the Parliament, a majority of Parliament represents the will of the Australian people and if there is an overwhelming majority won in the Lower House for the Coalition, would you then block it in the Upper House and if you do so are you thwarting … you see Kim Beasley didn’t do that, did he on elements of the GST; would you then thwart the will of the people? Butler: Well, you know, at the end of the day if a Labor Party candidate runs either a Senator or as a candidate for the House of Reps, they run on a Labor Party platform which includes taking market based action on climate change. It would be improper for a person to be elected on that platform then to switch their vote because the Liberal Party happened to be elected on a different platform. Presenter: As opposed to Julia Gillard saying there’d be “no carbon tax under a Government I lead”, then introducing one? Butler: Well, we were elected in 2010 as Labor Party candidates on the basis that we would take very clear action on climate change leading to an ETS and that’s …. Presenter: Chris Pyne? Pyne: I don’t think anybody’s going to buy the idea that you tried to let people know that you were going to introduce a carbon tax when six days before the election the Prime Minister said “there’ll be no carbon tax under a Government I lead” and then two weeks later announced she was reversing her position and on Monday, on July the first, our Carbon Tax is going up to 24 dollars fifteen cents per tonne. It’s seventy five cents in New Zealand, its $5 in Shenzhen and it’s $6 in Europe …aright, for goodness sake. Presenter: Chris Pyne, I know the bells are tolling. Pyne: The bells are tolling for us. Presenter: Liberal MP for Sturt, Shadow Minister for Education thank you. He manages Opposition Business in the House so he needs to be on the floor of the House and Mark Butler, Federal Labor MP for Port Adelaide and Minister for Mental Health, Ageing and Housing, thank you very much. ENDS