ABC 891

SUBJECTS:  Ellen; Gay marriage; Labor leadership; No-confidence motion; Craig Thomson vote

 

E&OE................................

 

Presenter: Good morning Minister. 

Hon Mark Butler MP: Good morning Matt, Dave and Christopher wherever you are.

Presenter: Chris Pyne is in Melbourne.  Shadow Minister for Education, Manager of Opposition Business, good morning Chris Pyne.

Hon Christopher Pyne MP: Good morning gentlemen.  I’m on my way to the airport in Melbourne having just been to a breakfast where I was the speaker and of course I was mobbed by the Ellen DeGeneres crowd.

 

Presenter: Did they mistake you for Ellen?

Pyne: I didn’t do the dance, no.  But of course I arrived with great excitement, I thought there is the television and all these crowds here to see me.  But then of course I realised it was for Ellen DeGeneres which was a bit deflating.

Presenter: You just assumed they were for you?

Pyne: Well of course!  Of course.  And I was a bit deflated after that.

Presenter: And Chris Pyne you know Ellen DeGeneres, she’s in a gay marriage.

Pyne: Not personally. I don’t know her personally.

Presenter: You know she’s married?

Pyne: Apparently yes.

Presenter: And would you approve of making that legal in Australia?

Pyne: I don’t really follow day-time American television closely I must say.  But well, you know we’ve had a vote on same-sex marriage and the Parliament voted two thirds to one third not to proceed with it.  I do think that we should recognise same-sex couples and I have been a long term proponent of doing so through civil unions.  I know that the same-sex lobby doesn’t support civil unions any more but it wasn’t that long ago that in fact that was what they asked for and argued for and Campbell Newman has introduced in Queensland and they support that.  And, of course, I have over the last twenty years always voted in the Parliament for recognition of same-sex couples through the Tax Act and the Immigration Act.

Presenter: That’s the usual script.  You don’t support gay marriage?

Pyne: I think we should recognise same-sex couples because, not in spite of being a conservative but because I am a conservative.  I want more stability and more commitment and I think the children of same-sex couples should have more stability in their households through civil unions.

Presenter: Ok thank you.  I think we know what that answer means.  Mark Butler, Minister for Housing, what’s your position on gay marriage Mark Butler?

 

Butler: Well I was in the one third, but I’m not sure if it was exactly one third, but I voted in favour of same-sex marriage when the matter came to the Parliament last year.  I’ve spoken and written quite publicly about my views on that.  I’ve consulted with my electorate which I think was around two to one in support of same-sex marriage so I’m out there if you like on this, have been for a while.  I mean, I think the problem for Christopher is regardless of his view, Tony Abbott did not allow a free vote on this for the Liberal Party.  Whether it would have been two thirds to one third or something quite different had they got a free vote is unknown because we weren’t able to see what exactly individual Liberal Party members felt about this.

Presenter: Mark Butler last week on this program you gave unqualified support to the Prime Minister so why would you be singled out as disloyal?

Butler: Well frankly I’m not sure.  I mean, I made quite unequivocal public statements as you said including on this program.  I never said anything differently publicly about that last week.  I never said anything different by way of background.  I never did anything inconsistent with that by way of canvassing or number crunching or anything like that.  So I’m very comfortable about my position vis-a-vis the Prime Minister.

Presenter: Well why does Laurie Ferguson, who saw his brother Martin resign as Minister, describe you and Anthony Albanese as ‘gutless wonders’ quote unquote for not also quitting.

Butler: Well you’d have to ask Laurie that. I think Anthony..

Presenter: Just a flight of fancy on his part?

Butler: Albo made it clear..I’m not sure it was a flight of fancy.  Albo made it clear on the weekend that Laurie has not exactly been his strongest supporter for twenty years or so in the Labor Party and I’d have to say exactly the same about Laurie’s view about me, perhaps not as long as the views he’s held about Anthony but for a good ten years Laurie has not exactly been my strongest supporter within the Labor Party.

Presenter: At the last minute in that crazy caucus meeting last week were you prepared to swap sides and vote against Julia Gillard for Kevin Rudd?

Butler: Well I think I made my position very clear, I made my position very clear on the Wednesday.  So only 24 hours before.

Presenter: No no, no but a lot happened in that 24 hours.

Butler: Well not really. I mean..

Presenter: Well well well let’s not.  A lot happened in that 24 hours we know that.

Butler: I was asked on Wednesday on this program about whether I supported Julia Gillard in the context of a great deal of speculation about a spill being called on and a potential vote for Leader and I made my position very clear on Wednesday morning.

Presenter: Well help us here.  Make it a bit clearer. Make it a bit clearer.

 

Butler: Well I’ve got nothing to add to what I said on Wednesday.  I’ve made my position very clear.  You asked me in the context of a potential spill and a great deal of speculation that before the week was out there, that before the week was out there would be a vote for Leader of the Labor Party.  I made my position very clear on this program.

Presenter: You did not change your support at the last minute inside that caucus room?  Even though there was no vote in the end.

Butler: Well there was no vote.  There was no…

Presenter: If you don’t answer this properly Mark Butler people may draw the impression that you did change your vote despite what you were saying publicly.

Butler: Well my position was clearly stated on Wednesday and I’ve got nothing to add to that position, it was my view on Wednesday in the context of speculation about what might happen Thursday. It was my deeply held view.

Presenter: That the Prime Minister should remain the Prime Minister?

Butler: That I supported the Prime Minister remaining as the Prime Minister, I think you asked me, until the election, and I said yes about that. And I said I was a proud and I think hard working member of her team working in portfolios which are important to our Government and which I am very committed.

Presenter: And on Thursday you didn’t contemplate changing that position?

Butler: Well, I wasn’t very sure there would be a vote. But my position was quite clear last week. It was quite clear. It was formed and stated on Wednesday in the context of speculation that on Thursday there would be a vote.

Presenter: Is that why Rudd, are you the reason Rudd couldn’t get across the line?

Butler: Well, I don’t, no. Well, I don’t know what the motivation for Kevin taking the decision he did on Thursday. Well, I don’t think anyone knows, I don’t think anyone knows what the position was last week. At the end of the day I think the thing you can take out of last week is that this speculation, whether it is speculation in the community, speculation in the media, or speculation in our own Party about the possibility of Kevin resuming the leadership of the Labor Party is over. It is dead and it is buried. Kevin said as much on Friday and I think that the events of last week absolutely solidify the view of the caucus – that Julia is our leader and she will lead us to the election.

Presenter: Is this a bit like attack of the zombies?  You know, you hit them with a baseball bat and then they keep coming back. And then you hit them with a cricket bat, you’ve seen the movies and they keep coming back?

Butler: Well, I haven’t actually seen those movies

Presenter: and then the chainsaw.

Butler: I think I get your point. I think the events of last week were decisive. I think they were utterly decisive. And I think any speculation by members of the Party or by the media that this is still a live issue is utterly wrong. I think this issue now is dead and buried.

Presenter: Chris Pyne, we’ve got a listener question here and it’s a good one. Will you accept Craig Thomson’s vote if that enables you to get your no confidence motion up after the budget is tabled?

Pyne: Well Matt, if the Government is still in chaos and civil war as we have just been hearing from Mark Butler, we will move a no-confidence motion. We will put it on the notice paper. We’ll listen to what the crossbenchers have to say and the feedback I’m getting from the crossbenchers is that they don’t want it to be debated in budget week. And we want to maximise our chances of passing a no-confidence motion. In terms of Craig Thomson – well we haven’t accepted his vote and we have no plans to accept his vote.

Presenter: But if that was the one vote, if you accepted it that would bring on an earlier election, would you accept it?

Pyne: Well, not that I’m aware of. My understanding is that we will not accept Craig Thomson’s vote because we haven’t accepted it and that would be a major change from our practise…

Presenter: Although, you and Tony Abbott have been banging on for months, maybe for years, but certainly in the last few months that what this country needs is an election.

Pyne: Well we do, yes.

Presenter: If the only thing that was stopping you between an election was Craig Thomson’s vote, surely you would take his vote wouldn’t you?

Pyne: Well it is a tricky question but the answer is no we wouldn’t. Because we have said that Craig Thomson’s is a tainted vote and we haven’t accepted his vote to date and I don’t see any reason why we would change that.

Presenter: Well then the suffering that you tell us that we are all enduring under Julia Gillard can’t be that bad…

Pyne: We are.

Presenter:…Can’t be that great because you are quite prepared for us to have more of it instead of accepting a man’s tainted vote?

Pyne: The suffering we’re enduring is extreme.

Presenter: Well it can’t be that bad.

Pyne: No, it’s pretty bad.

Presenter: Then take the vote.

Pyne: Well we have said that we haven’t taken his vote in the past and we won’t take his vote and that’s because we think it’s a tainted vote and that he should leave the Parliament and be replaced by another member. So we couldn’t now simply roll over on that and try and put it on expediency. I hear what you say though, David about how the public deserve a new government, a government…

Presenter: I don’t think David said that, you’re saying that. I don’t think David said that.

Pyne: Well I am. I’m saying that.

Presenter: I’m just repeating back to what you say to us.

Presenter: Thank you. You are hearing what you are saying.

Pyne: I’m saying that we need a new government of adults who are actually focused on job security and cost of living and boarder protection and economic management. I agree that that is our priority. But at the end of the day I think you will find that Craig Thomson will vote with the Government but we are hoping that Andrew Wilkie and Robert Oakeshott and Tony Windsor will deeply examine their consciences but also seek the views of the electorate about whether they should support that no confidence vote.

Presenter: Chris Pyne, thank you. Shadow Minister for Education and Mark Butler, thank you as well, Minister of Housing.

Butler: Thank you as always.

ENDS.