ABC 891

SUBJECTS:  Media laws; Labor distractions

E&OE................................

Presenter:  …he’s the Minister for Mental Health and Ageing, good morning to you Minister.

Mark Butler: Morning gentlemen.

Presenter: And Christopher Pyne, Federal Liberal MP for Sturt and he’s the Shadow Minister for Education and he’s the Government attack dog as well in the Parliament, good morning to you Christopher Pyne.

Hon Christopher Pyne MP: Good morning Matthew and David and Mark.

Presenter:  Before we get on to what some say is a meltdown in the leadership of Julia Gillard, that’s what some say, including those in the Labor Party.  Mark Butler and to you also Chris Pyne because we know you had some responsibility as Parliamentary Secretary I think in the final days of the Howard Government for Mental Health issues but Mark Butler Minister for Mental Health, has the State and this is an issue that appears to be highlighted in South Australia now, gone too far in moving away from an emphasis on acute mental health beds in its attempt to have things at what’s called the sub-acute level, in other words community care and community support.

Butler: Look, I don’t know the details of, I heard the last couple of sentences of your discussion with Jack so I don’t know the details of the story over there but what I will say is South Australia a decade ago did have a significant problem with a lack of sub-acute beds or what in the mental health sector we call step up or step down beds. So there was nothing in between you being out living in the community independently or you being in a fully blown acute sector hospital and what we were advised, I was a part of a review of mental health services in South Australia before I went into Parliament.  What we were advised is that in the same ways that other states have these intermediate care centres, South Australia should direct some money to building those beds.  Now the Rudd Government actually when Nicola Roxon was Health Minister, gave the South Australian Government very substantial amounts of money to build those sub-acute services so the people out in the community who were becoming more unwell would not have to wait until they got to the point of crisis to go to hospital before they got to step up facilities.

Presenter:    Exactly.  Has that been at the expense however of the closure or the underfunding of acute-beds, in other words will always be a case for acute beds

Presenter:  You’re the Federal Health Minister and in your own State we’ve got people in emergency departments, suffering from mental health being kept there for four, five, six nights.

Butler: Well I don’t know what has happened to acute-bed numbers.  In my own part of Adelaide in the Queen Elizabeth Hospital I don’t understand there has been any change to acute-bed numbers in spite of the fact that there has also been an intermediate care centre close by the QEH developed.  Now I’m just not across that story but look there needs to be a mix of acute beds for people who are in crisis in mental health terms and sub-acute beds and I would hope that all State Governments have that balance right.

Presenter:  Chris Pyne, your view on that?

Pyne: Well  I was fortunate to be the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary over four and a half years in Mental Health and founded Headspace and I can tell you that South Australia as a State Government has chronically underfunded mental health for a lot longer than a decade and Father Cappo, Monsignor  Cappo of course did a report into this subject and Mark Butler was one of the people who sat on the advisory board for Father Cappo at the time and what was very clear was that South Australia had underfunded Mental Health.  It was the bottom of every single State on the mainland for mental health.

Presenter:  Well, has it improved?

Pyne: And it hasn’t improved. 

Presenter:  Has improved?

Pyne: It hasn’t improved.  No.  The Glenside Hospital redevelopment which is in my electorate, the Government, the State Government actually cut acute mental health beds.  They actually have less mental health beds available for patients than previously.  So in fact what they’ve done is try to save costs because acute level health is more expensive than pushing people with mental health issues into the community.  If you’re going to have people with mental health issues in the community of course, you have to give them the support in the community to be able to live and exist there.

Presenter:  Mark Butler, coming back to you, your statement on the Peter Hartcher story splashed on the Sydney Morning Herald that you have told colleagues that you’re reconsidering your support for Julia Gillard.  You haven’t denied that, have you?

Butler: Well, look, I said to Peter Hartcher and this was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age when he rang me and presented this story to me that some unnamed people had taken that view about my views, that you know I’ve talked about this issue on more occasions than I can count including on this show and that I simply wasn’t willing to get involved in yet another round of frenzy and speculation about that issue and really, that remains my position today. 

Presenter:  Sure, of course publicly you are not going to dump on her  but Mark Butler, Peter Hartcher’s story says that privately, you’ve been telling colleagues that you’re reconsidering your support for Julia Gillard.  Now there’s nothing I’ve read from you and nothing I’ve heard you say just then that denies that. 

Butler: Look I’m not going to add anything to what I’ve said to Peter Hartcher and I’m not going to add anything to what I said on Twitter yesterday, which is that I’m look I’m just not going to get involved in yet another round of speculation.  It is like quicksand if you get involved.

Presenter: Sure.

Butler: Every question leads to another question and you know we have…

Presenter: Well Bob Carr denied it.

Butler: We have very significant things happening this week which I prefer to talk about. Some of them in my portfolio, some of them not in my portfolio.  So you can ask it any way you want.

Presenter: Well here’s a promise to you.  You say you won’t answer that question because it gets you, it leads on to another question.  Mark Butler, if you answer yes or no, we will not ask you another question on this today.  Okay?  Alight? We will ask you this question and if you say yes or no, and we’ll just move on.  Mark Butler, does Julia Gillard have your unqualified support as Prime Minister?

Butler: Yes.  I’m a proud member of Julia’s team. I said that yesterday and we’re doing some fantastic things.

Presenter:  Chris Pyne, that’s the end of it, I think, isn’t it?

Pyne: Well sadly, Mark Butler’s been given the one two treatment by Bob Carr.  It’s one of the oldest tricks in the book.  Bob Carr obviously spoke to Peter Hartcher.  He obviously let it be known that he and Mark Butler were on the move.  That’s certainly the way his colleagues are reporting it around this building and then hopped on a Qantas jet through Washington leaving Mark Butler holding the baby …

Presenter:  Well, I think he was interviewed in Washington because he was at  …

Pyne: No he was interviewed after the story appeared, yes but not by the domestic press, by the foreign press in Washington and of course it’s very easy for Bob Carr to escape as Foreign Minister, much less easy for Mark Butler to escape, stuck here in Australia, having to defend remarks other people put into the press on his behalf.

Presenter:  You’re not saying Bob Carr set up Mark Butler?

Pyne: Look, it’s the oldest trick in the book to..

Presenter: What is?

Pyne: Well for him to say, to put out a story then hop on a plane and disappear so he can’t be contacted for twelve or fourteen hours, leaving the other person who is in the story, holding the baby and that’s what’s happened to Mark Butler.  Obviously, there is a great deal happening here in Canberra.  The media laws are in complete meltdown, the Government is a shambles.  This morning, apparently the news media laws were the most important thing we could be debating last night, then, they’ve have now listed eighteen other bills this morning to introduce so we can’t get to the media laws because obviously, the Rudd supporters are saying “Let’s delay this as long as we can now” so that we can replace Julia Gillard and never go ahead with these media laws. 

This is no way to run a country.  The Australian public deserve a stable Government of adults, who are putting their interests first rather than this circus and soap opera that the Government has become.

Presenter: Mark Butler?

Pyne: And I feel sorry for Mark Butler but he’s part of it.

Presenter:  Mar Butler, Mark Butler, Chris Pyne feels sorry for you.

Pyne: I do, I feel sorry for you Mark.

Butler: That’s a matter of great comfort.

Presenter: Yea I’m sure, I’m sure you’re really feeling a lot better now.

Butler: Look you know, there are, I haven’t looked at all eighteen Bills that we’re introducing.  We had a look at them yesterday.  There are some really substantial matters in there.  I mean today, I’m really proud of the fact that we’ll be debating aged care bills which I understand have the support of the Opposition which is really pleasing because this is something that the community has been seeking for many years, as Christopher would know, the former Minister for Ageing, the modernisation of our aged care sector is a critically important thing and that is something we’ll be debating in Parliament.

Presenter: And people might be applauding, as we speak, the fact that you will be debating aged care in our community.  Have people been asking for a long time in Australia, for a crackdown on freedom of press?

Butler: Well that’s your characterisation of these bills, I mean I think …

Presenter:  Well, media law reform then?

Butler: Well, I think we had this discussion last week and Christopher was able to say that no-one had ever talked to him about diversity in the press or any other press issues in his electorate and I suggested and said that people did talk to me about those issues in the electorate and I maintain that position that people are concerned about our media in this Country.

Presenter:  Okay Mark Butler, we thank you, Federal Minister for Mental Health and Ageing and Labor Federal MP for Port Adelaide and Christopher Pyne the Federal Liberal MP for Sturt, Shadow Minister for Education.

Pyne: Thank you.

Presenter: Thank you.

ENDS.