ABC 891

SUBJECTS: Definition of misogyny; Coalition’s policy to stop the boats E&OE………… Journalist: With Chris Pyne Pyne: Good morning David, good morning Matthew and good morning Mark. Journalist: Chris Pyne, now Mark Butler is having trouble accepting your “the dog ate my homework excuse” for not being in the studio, and that is that you left your phone at home… nobody who knows Chris Pyne… Is that right Mark Butler? Butler: That’s right its surgically connected to you isn’t it? Pyne: Well that’s why you know I had to go back and get it. I couldn’t be a moment without it. As soon as I discovered my loss I had to double back and I knew I would never get to the studio in time. So I do apologise. Journalist: Can we start with you Mark Butler, we learned this morning courtesy of the financial review that, that the Macquarie dictionary is considering redefining the definition  of  misogyny just from being a pure hated of women, given that the Prime Minister’s speech in response to that, they now think that they can now also include a secondary definition, that is: an entrenched prejudice but not a visceral hatred of women. Do you firstly think Tony Abbott hates women? Butler: No I don’t, I don’t. Journalist: Do you think he has a deeply entrenched prejudice against women? Butler: Well I think his record shows a fairly negative approach to women at times, I’m sure that he, at a general level, has a very high regard for women and at a particular level and he has three daughters and a wife, and he obviously has a great deal of love for them. But I think there are a number of instances in his career where he has shown very poor form when it comes to women he is up against. Whether it’s currently the Prime Minister or Minister Roxon in the past… Journalist: But does that make him a misogynist? Butler: Well coming back to the definition of the question, I must say, I obviously don’t read the dictionary enough; I would never have defined misogyny as requiring a level of hatred. I think… Journalist: But that’s every definition. Butler: Well I obviously don’t read the dictionary enough. Journalist: … the Oxford, the Webster, the Collins English dictionary, Dictionary.com, the Oxford Dictionary Online. They all have one message, one definition: a hatred or dislike of women or a prejudice against women, some of them. But the primary definition is the hatred of women. But you don’t see it that way? Butler: No I don’t. I see it as prejudice; I see it as a lack of ability to deal with women as equals. I think, I guess I see that as the everyday definition. I think the Macquarie dictionary is catching up with that. Journalist: And you define Tony Abbott in that way as a misogynist. Butler: No, I think he has made remarks, I think he has behaved, in the past, on occasions in a way that can be described as misogynist. But I wouldn’t necessarily say that his entire character is tarnished by that. But these might be splitting hairs. Journalist: Well it’s really important because I think there has been about one and a half million hits on Julia Gillard’s speech where she said that she wouldn’t be lectured on misogyny by someone she regards, as misogynist. Butler: Well and I think she genuinely regards Tony Abbott as having behaved on a number of instances towards her in a misogynist way. I mean I think anyone who watched that speech last week would regard it as having come from the heart and from her own personal experience. Journalist: I don’t think anyone doubts that. Butler: No. Journalist: Well it’s just a real pity that it was given in order to keep Peter Slipper as the speaker. Butler: Well I don’t think anything about last week was particularly pretty and I think you know feedback I get from constituents of mine and other people I come across travelling in the country is however important people like Christopher and I and others in the parliament think that some of these issues are and they are in terms of the functioning of the parliament, who has what vote and who has what position. At the end of the day, they don’t reflect what people in the community are thinking are important federal issues. Journalist: Well the twitterati might be very excited by the speech … Are you saying in the real world people are trying to make do, they want jobs they want their power bill to be lower… it’s not a big issue. Butler: Well it’s not an issue that has any impact on their daily living I think and its always a challenge for politicians to get a proper balance between the things that are waxing and waning in terms of the operation of the parliament and attempts to score political points against your opposition, a balance between those political tactics and making sure that there is always an eye on the issues that actually matter to Australian families and Australian pensioners and so on. Journalist: Chris Pyne. Pyne: I’m still here, yeah, I am still here. Journalist: As you know if you’re not in the studio you sometimes surrender a slight advantage. Pyne: Oh yes, I concede. Journalist: Well Chris Pyne, do you regard that this new definition that Macquarie dictionary is now looking at, that it will then encompass Tony Abbott? Pyne: Well look I think that is a load of rubbish and I think it is disappointing for Mark Butler, given he is trying to answer these questions, and you can tell he so clearly doesn’t have his heart in it, because most people know that in the political world and in the real world, to put it that way, that last week’s attempt by Julia Gillard to give a speech about playing the gender card was a desperate attempt to distract people from the real issue which was that the Labor Party got rid of Harry Jenkins as speaker to put Peter Slipper into the job and it blew up massively in the prime minister’s face. So faced with that prospect she gave a speech, which some people think was a good speech other people think that because it was about defending Peter Slipper it couldn’t have been a good speech. It lacked substance… Journalist: It’s got a huge response and had international recognition. Pyne: Well I mean not really, it was on a few blogs… Journalist: well Stephen Fry liked it. Pyne: Well Stephen Fry would like it. But the truth is that if the Labor party wants to play to a small audience of the twitterati and the commentariate well good luck to them, because the liberal party is sending its message to the people who are trying to pay their bills, who are trying to pay their mortgages, worried about their job security, concerned about the carbon tax and I would much rather be on their side then get a few plaudits from the twitterati and the commentariate. Journalist: Christopher Pyne, the Prime Minister described your leader as gutless the other morning because he wouldn’t bring up the issue of turning back the boats with the President of Indonesia. Did he or didn’t he? Pyne: Well that just unfortunately shows why the Prime Minister has no touch for foreign policy because what she is trying to do, is ask the leader of the opposition to be undiplomatic to the President of Indonesia. Now what happens in these meeting is that Tony Abbott and Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono talked about people smuggling and border protection and the details of those policy debates are carried out by shadow ministers and ministers… Journalist: … Yes but hang on, Tony Abbott said there wouldn’t be any surprises for the Indonesian Government, so if he is meeting face to face and it was such an important part of your policy to turn back the boats. Don’t you think he would mention it? Pyne: No, what it shows is a complete ignorance about foreign policy on the Prime Minister’s part because Scott Morrison and Julie Bishop of course, did have those discussions with their counterparts in the Indonesian Government. And the real import of course, is that Tony Abbott meeting with Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was that it was the most unprecedented meeting for an Indonesian President with the Leader of the Opposition from Australia, in Indonesia is almost unprecedented, what it shows is that Indonesia is very comfortable with the Coalition’s policy on turning back the boats where it is safe to do so and in fact wanted to send that message to the diplomatic world and to the Australian government. Journalist: Mark Butler just a response on that? Butler: Well I think the only statements you’ve heard from the Indonesian Government over the months about the turning back the boats policy is very very negative. And I think it is not proper for Tony Abbott to send a particular message on talk back radio, that turning back the boats is a central element of their policy and then not, if you are adopting a no surprises approach to our closest neighbour then not raise such a very sensitive element of that… Pyne: What are you suggesting they don’t know about our policy? Butler: Well of course they know about it Pyne: it’s hardly a surprise. Butler: Because the minister for foreign affairs has raised it and said that the Indonesian Government does not support it. So I think if Tony Abbott is going to have a heart to heart with the President of Indonesia, it was incumbent on him to raise it with him and have that open and honest conversation about why Tony Abbott takes a different view from the Indonesian Government and from our own Navy chiefs about the wisdom of this policy. Pyne: Well hopefully you don’t get to be Foreign Minister if that’s your attitude. Journalist: Chris Pyne wouldn’t that the elephant in the room? Wouldn’t that be the biggest bit of your foreign policy that you’re flogging? Pyne: Now when you have a half hour meeting with the President of Indonesia, you talk in general terms about a range of issues and so of course that is exactly what happened and then you leave a discussion about detailed policy to the ministers and shadow ministers who are accompanying the leader and on this occasion Julie Bishop was foreign minister, Scott Morrison was the minister for immigration. Everyone in diplomatic circles knows that, so this is just because Julia Gillard is playing politics with foreign policy, because she has nothing left to talk about. She doesn’t want to talk about job security or Carbon Tax or inflation or unemployment and it is so sad for people in the community because that’s the things they are interested in. Journalist: Christopher Pyne we must move, but that you very much for your time. Christopher Pyne the federal MP for Sturt and Mark Butler Labor MP for Port Adelaide. Just before you leave you’re in town today with Jenny Macklin regarding the National Disability Scheme.   Butler: That’s right we are visiting Novita to talk to people there about the NDIS and how it will work. Journalist: That’s right, Mark Butler thank you for coming to our studios, and Chris Pyne on the phone… ENDS.