ABC 891

SUBJECTS: Craig Thomson saga; Isobel Redmond; Schapelle Corby E&OE……………  David Bevan: On the front page of the Australian, Paul Kelly writes, “The unresolvable Thomson affair testifies to a minority Government parliament now tainted beyond repair.”  What would you say to Paul Kelly and the Australians who agree with him? Penny Wong: I’d ask him to look at some of the other things also in the Australian, which is the report of the OECD which emphasises the strength of the Australian economy and backs the Government’s budget strategy….   Bevan: So you just say, “don’t look over there, look at this, don’t look over there”?   Wong: No, no.  I understand the concern people have and a share that concern about these allegations made in relation to Mr Thomson, but I think it is also important to recognise that is not the only issue that the Parliament and the Government needs to be concerned with.  Things like growth in the economy, jobs for Australians, spreading the benefits of the boom through things like the school kids bonus.  These are important policies, which are very relevant to the day to day lives of Australians.   Matthew Abraham: Senator, are you able to explain why the Prime Minister says that the course of justice of law should be able to take its place against Mr Thomson, take its course and yet she doesn’t want him back in the Labor caucus?  Surely if he was cleared by any proceedings, and there aren’t any yet, you’d welcome him back into the caucus eventually?   Wong: I think there are different levels here and certainly the Prime Minister did make a decision, which I think was the right one, was in the best interests of the party for Mr Thomson to step aside from the caucus.  But I think there is an important principle here – and no doubt, Christopher will disagree with me – whatever our personal views about some of the allegations made we live in a civil society where there are proper processes, proper authorities who look at evidence and they make decisions about how that evidence should be treated and they make decisions about enforcement.  Those authorities are not the Parliament.   Abraham: However, even if those processes all take place – and we already have had a four year investigation by Fair Work Australia, which is one of those bodies – even it that takes place and he’s found to be totally, absolutely blameless would he be welcomed back into the Labor caucus?   Wong: Oh I, that’s, let’s deal with that if it ever occurs.   Abraham: Well, the Prime Minister says no.   Wong: Well, well, well, the point is, you said something to me in that question which I think is quite important.  You said one of those bodies is Fair Work Australia.  They have investigated, but the issue is enforcement and penalty and what enforcement action is taken by authorities, whatever those authorities might be and obviously in this country we have authorities who handle criminal matters and authorities who handle civil penalties.  My point is that’s not the Parliament and I for one while I understand the focus on it I’d like to be talking about some of the things that do matter to your listeners like things like the cost of living and how we’re addressing some cost of living pressures through our budget.   Bevan: Well, before we move on other topics, Christopher Pyne, how will you respond to Craig Thomson’s call to stop acting like some kind of quasi court – more like a lynch mob – and actually let the proper authorities do the investigations rather than set the Parliament up in that way.   Christopher Pyne: Well, the Parliament is responsible for determining its own actions and protecting its own integrity and even Robert Ray, the famous Labor Senator from Victoria, Senator Robert Ray who would have been something of a mentor to Penny Wong wrote in 1997 that it was outrageous for anyone to suggest that the parliament couldn’t deal with its own members and in its own way.  That is the fundamental Westminster principle.  The Opposition isn’t prejudging any court cases involving the Member for Dobell Craig Thomson.  What we are doing though is we’ve referred him to the privileges committee because we believe that his statement on Monday was deliberately misleading and the Government supported that reference last night. There is an inconsistency in Penny Wong’s argument about Craig Thomson and I’m sure she recognises it, but she can’t say it and that is the Government thinks he should be entitled to the presumption innocence in the Parliament, but not in the caucus.  They’ve excluded him from the caucus, but they’re hanging onto his vote in the Parliament and the truth is of course the only reason they’re doing that is because they have a one vote majority.   Abraham: Christopher Pyne, you are prejudging him aren’t you? You said he deliberately misled Parliament.   Pyne: Yes I did.  In fact I outlined in the Parliament yesterday what I regard as a very compelling case for where the Member for Dobell has misled the Parliament and then it’ll be up to the privileges committee to examine that and that Robert Oakeshott has placed on the notice paper a censure motion on the Member for Dobell.  So the Parliament is doing what it should be doing, which is protecting its own interests and the Government at every turn since last September has tried to stop that happening, but of course the ground is shifting from under them as the crossbenchers find it harder and harder to prop them up.   Abraham: Do you consider yourself very fortunate indeed to have something like this happening?  Your critics would say it masks policy nakedness from the Abbott Opposition.   Pyne: I am very unhappy this is happening.   Abraham: Really? Can you say that with a straight face?   Pyne: Absolutely, I am very unhappy this is happening.   Abraham: It’s mana from heaven is it not?   Pyne: No, I’m not.   Wong: Christopher, you’re Shadow Minister for Education, when was the last time you actually spoke about anything to do with education?   Pyne: That’s hilarious.  You poor thing Penny you should look at my website. I gave a speech for 25 minutes on Monday night to the Australian Christian Schools Association about the Gonski review, that was two days ago. I put up two press releases on education yesterday.   Bevan: Penny Wong?   Penny: Thank you, but the reality is Christopher has been the lead attack dog on this issue, and he certainly hasn’t been coming out with policy that is about increasing the opportunities for education in this country unlike the Government who have increased the number of young Australians in University, particularly young Australians from more disadvantaged backgrounds. My point is, Christopher that I know this is only what you want to talk about.   Pyne: (inaudible) I was answering the question I was asked by Dave and Matt   Bevan: We have covered this issue, and we haven’t got a lot of time left to speak either of you about other matters. We could move on to something else. Senator Wong, Isobel Redmond is on the front page of several papers this morning saying there isn’t much point taking a confrontational attitude over the issue of sex discrimination, rather than taking legal action if the woman feels as though she is being sexually discriminated, it is much better to take an un-confrontational attitude to question people, look basically be very very good at your job and if worst comes to worst walk away from your job.   Wong:   Well, I’ve never found that simply ignoring it and being silent is the way to deal with injustice and prejudice and obviously there are different strategies at different times, but I don’t think that the sorts of advances we’ve seen in terms of having a more equal society would have occurred if people weren’t prepared to stand up and say look, this isn’t fair.  That’s how I’ve always approached these things personally.  Obviously you have to work out sometimes how you handle it.  Sometimes you have a quiet chat as opposed to a huge public argument, but I don’t think silence in the face of unfairness leads to greater equality.   Bevan: Christopher Pyne, we wouldn’t have the Ashby / Slipper affair if somebody simply decided to walk away.   Pyne: I haven’t seen that report of Isobel Redmond’s statement so it’s very hard for me to comment, I would simply say that in response to the question I was asked earlier, the reason I am unhappy about all of these matters that are swirling around Parliament is that they damage all Politicians, and the Parliament, and I would have thought people would agree with me.   Abraham: That wasn’t the question though.   Pyne: I can’t comment on Isobel Redmond   Abraham: You can’t?   Pyne: I haven’t seen it.   Abraham: It’s half the front page of The Australian.   Pyne: I haven’t seen The Australian today since I got to work this morning.  I’ve done Sky television news and now I’m doing your interview.   Bevan: Here it is I’ll read it to you. The front page says one of our Australia’s top female political leaders has told young people facing sex discrimination at work to ignore it and it will just disappear.   Pyne: Well, I don’t have a view on this until I have seen exactly what she has said. I am not going to respond to a quote from a newspaper report.   Wong: Can I just add something here. I think what I would say to any young women listening is that it isn’t ok for you to be treated unfairly. However you want to choose to respond to it, obviously people can take counselling from parents, friends or mentors. I think there is a very important principle here; it isn’t ok for people to be treated unfairly because of their gender.   Abraham: Just finally to both of you Schapelle Corby, there is some talk that her sentence has been reduced by 5 years, that would mean on the face of it 2017 and I think she would come back to Australia, maybe earlier. There has been talk about good behaviour and other deficits; she could be home by August. Do you welcome that?   Wong: Look, I do, I think we have consistently supported her clemency application on humanitarian grounds and obviously this is a sigh of relief for her and her family. I think that the Foreign Minister will be holding a press conference shortly to discuss matter this further.   Abraham: Christopher Pyne, have you read that story?   Pyne: Well yes I was asked today on Sky, so yes I am across that. I don’t actually read every story about State political matters, which you’d be surprised to hear. I do welcome it, the Opposition have a long standing position that clemency should be extended to Schapelle Corby and I am very pleased President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has made that decision. Hopefully she can come back sooner rather than later. Obviously she has been found guilty of a serious crime, she is serving a significant sentence but it’s probably time she did come home. ENDS.