6PR - Paul Murray

SUBJECTS:  Craig Thomson E&OE................................ Hon Christopher Pyne MP: Good morning Paul. Paul Murray: Will the Government rely on Mr Thomson’s vote all the way up to the election? Pyne: Yes they will.  The Coalition has made it clear we will not accept Craig Thomson’s vote and we’ve called on the Government to do the same thing.  It was a tainted vote before yesterday, it’s an even more tainted vote today. Murray: He hasn’t been found guilty of anything. The legalities are that they are quite at liberty to take his vote. Pyne: Well they are but politicians get held to a higher standard when it comes to matters like civil or criminal cases being held against them and if the Government wants to rely on Craig Thomson’s vote it’s entitled to do so.  It can do so legally but I think from a political point of view, it is a bad look.  The Prime Minister made the judgement that she would back Craig Thomson in.  On eight occasions she said in the Parliament that she had full confidence in Craig Thomson in fact she said she hoped he would “serve as the Member for Dobell for a very, very, very long time to come”, quoting Julia Gillard and of course, they’ve known for some time that Craig Thomson had a cloud hanging over him before the 2010 election and Graham Richardson is on record as saying he warned the Labor Party about Craig Thomson many years ago.  So, the truth is that Julia Gillard has backed him in; she owns Craig Thomson and if I was the Prime Minister, from a political point of view I would want to be as far away from that issue as possible.  If they want to keep his vote well good luck to them but I think they will carry the consequences of it, too. Murray: Christopher, is there any suggestion that Mr Thomson could be dealt with by the Courts and the finality, a result, before the election? Pyne: Well yes.  Of course he could.  It’s a question of how long the Court process takes, his defence. Now, his lawyer Chris McArdle and Mr Thompson’s made it perfectly clear they intend to fight every one of these charges and that’s their absolute right to do so, then of course he is innocent until proven guilty in the Courts and if they do, do that, it will take much longer.  But that’s a matter for Mr Thomson and Mr McArdle to advise him about. Murray: I don’t know if you’ve heard the comments this morning by the New South Wales’ Premier or not,  he’s basically said… well I’ll play it for you Chris, we’ve got it here  you can have a listen to this, “I’m told that standard procedure applies but I think Mr Thomson and his lawyer need to calm down a bit.  After all, the allegations surrounding Craig Thomson that he all too ready to take his vote not in front of strangers in exchange for money”. That was about his complaints about being strip searched but even though there’s been the word “alleged” thrown in there, it does appear that the presumption of innocence doesn’t mean much in terms of the political debate. Pyne: Look, unfortunately Paul, as we all know, in politics, the maelstrom of politics is such that sometimes the niceties of the Court process becomes subsumed by the feeding frenzy of the press pack and the calls of political parties but the truth is, he is entitled to the presumption of innocence.  He indicated he is innocent and his lawyer has said they’ll fight the charges.  I don’t make any comment on Mr Thomson’s guilt, this is really about the Prime Minister’s political judgement and the Prime Minister’s judgement has been to defend and support Craig Thomson even though Graham Richardson was raising issues about his suitability as a candidate even before he was preselected for Dobell.  It’s all very cute for the Prime Minister to now say yesterday she is unaware of all these matters as though this is all a great surprise to her, she must be the only politician living in that bubble because people have been waiting for charges to be laid, have been talking about it for many, many months.  We’ve known about New South Wales and Victoria Police both conducting investigations and Fair Work Australia has laid Civil charges, you would have to be living on an atoll in the South Pacific not to know that Craig Thomson was looming as a political problem and yet she called an election the day before this story broke. Murray: Yeah. I’ve been weighing up in my own mind whether or not the Government would be better off having this matter dealt with before the election or whether they’re actually worse off by not having it dealt with and then suffering this death by a thousand sleazy cuts, all the way to the election with the matter unresolved. Pyne: Well, they rely on two votes to remain in Office.  Craig Thomson who is facing charges and unfortunately the former Speaker Peter Slipper who is also facing charges so it is a pretty tawdry scene in Canberra and I think most of your listeners would be thinking that the Prime Minister when she announced the election on Wednesday would have been better off announcing it for five weeks from now, not eight months from now. Murray: Yeah. Is there any evidence at all the Prime Minister knew about the fact Craig Thomson was to be charged yesterday, when she announced the date the day before? Pyne: Look, I don’t have any evidence of it, it does seem an uncanny coincidence that the Prime Minister would announce the election the day before Craig Thomson was charged because it does two things of course.  It changes the political dynamic; we’re now in a campaign and I think she hoped that would obliterate all other stories which, of course, it did for 24 hours and of course, if there is a by-election now, if Robert McClelland the former Attorney General resigns early from Parliament, he’s announced his retirement, if Peter Slipper resigns or Craig Thomson resigns then of course, she would say I assume we won’t hold the by-election now, we’ll wait until the general election in September so the electors of that seat don’t have to vote twice. Murray: Is that the Speaker’s call? Is that as you understand it? Pyne: It is the Speaker’s call but of course the Speaker would if it was a Labor seat they would consult the Leader of the Labor Party and I’m sure her advice would be well we know there’s an election in September, we should wait til September. Murray: Just leave the seat vacant, were he to fall over in the middle of the year? Pyne: That’s right. Murray: It does appear the one thing that she did in the terms of announcing September is the two rural Independents Mr Oakeshott and Mr Windsor have been demanding the Government go full term.  It does appear that she’s now gone to their wishes of September would be full term, it looks like she’s locked them into place for the course of the year. Pyne: Well, if she consulted with the Independents and the Greens before she consulted with the Cabinet which I think is extraordinary and in the maelstrom of all these stories that’s been lost a bit but the truth is the Independents and the Greens were more in the know than the Federal Cabinet which speaks volumes of the dysfunction at the centre of this Government and of course she has locked them in but they were pretty locked in already, Paul.  It’s very rare for Tony Windsor or Robert Oakeshott to vote with the Coalition, except when it doesn’t matter. Murray: Yes so I’m just wondering if you are interested in testing whatever support there might be on this issue when the Parliament gets back in moving some sort of motion of no confidence or whatever machinery might be available to you just to test whether everybody is happy to have Mr Thomson remaining in the Parliament. Pyne: Well the Coalition’s already lost confidence in this Government.  We never felt they had a legitimacy as a Government from the beginning of the 2010 election.  If the Independents wanted to move a motion of no confidence in the Government, we would be very likely to support it but there’s no point in us making gestures in the Chamber that are bound to fail unless we know the Independents are going to support us.  The best way of doing that would be for them to move it but I can tell you from bitter experience over the last two and a half years, I’ve often felt I had the Independents voting in our corner only to walk in to the Chamber and find them on the other side and once bitten twice shy but thirty times bitten you might think about it the thirty first time. Murray: I think the numbers shape up at this stage Labor can count on 74 votes that’s with the Greens, the two rural Independents and Craig Thomson. You’ve got 73 if you count in Tony Crook and Bob Katter which then leaves of course, Andrew Wilkie and Peter Slipper so it’s not a certainty, is it? Pyne: But Tony Crook has now joined our Parliamentary Party and we have 72 plus Bob Katter and the Government has 74.  Andrew Wilkie has been floating since, so to speak, since the Prime Minister broke her promise to him about Pokies.  Just another broken promise and Peter Slipper of course is very much.. Murray: A wild card. Pyne: He is a wild card, very much up in the air because we don’t know what will happen with his vote. Murray: With Wilkie you get to 74 all then Slipper would have to decide it, it wouldn’t go to Anna Burke for the Speaker’s deciding vote. Pyne: No it wouldn’t.  That’s exactly right and we’ll monitor it very closely of course.  I will monitor it as Leader of the Opposition in the House on a daily basis Murray: Alright, good to talk to you thanks Christopher. Pyne: Thank you. Murray: Christopher Pyne, manager of Opposition Business. ENDS.