5AA Adelaide Radio

JOURNALIST: Big two tribes today, Christopher Pyne and Anthony Albanese join us, good morning to you Albo.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: G’day.

JOURNALIST: And Christopher good morning to you.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning Will.

JOURNALIST: Now Chris we’ll start with you if we can, did Malcolm Turnbull stuff things up yesterday by failing to get in there and head this whole so-called ‘guns for votes’ furore off at the pass by emphatically ruling out any changes to the Port Arthur gun laws?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well it’s a desperate distraction by the Labor Party designed to take everyone’s mind off the fact that they are still shackled to the CFMEU and refusing to support bringing back the Australian Building and Construction Commission and what Malcolm did initially is not want to conduct discussions with the Senators about the ABCC Bill through the national media which is a perfectly sensible position. But there’s absolutely no proposal whatsoever to change the gun laws that John Howard initiated, they are the Coalition’s – one of the Coalition’s great prides and achievements and no one’s proposing that, neither is Senator Leyonhjelm proposing that.

JOURNALIST: But didn’t Malcolm Turnbull do exactly what you just said, he set out not to do because he did seem to give a sort of characteristically long winded answer where he was canvassing the nature of the discussions that he had been having with Senator Leyonhjelm, then was talking about what state Police Ministers were doing and how this was a complicated matter that the federal government and the state governments needed to work on. He almost sort of got bogged where he should have just said the John Howard led gun prohibitions that were brought in after the Port Arthur massacre are sacred, they are off limits, they will never ever be touched by my government.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well he did say that but importantly, Malcolm Turnbull respects the intelligence of the Australian voter and he full expects that explaining things to people is a better way of dealing with things rather than just responding with slogans and jibes and mediscare campaigns which is Bill Shorten’s stock and trade, Malcolm prefers to explain things to people and I think that’s well respect by the Australian public. But what we’ve seen here from the Labor Party David is a desperate attempt to distract from two problems, civil war in the Victorian Labor Party where Anthony Albanese’s left faction is at war with itself, and war with Kim Carr, and the fact that they are still supporting the CFMEU in spite of all the overwhelming evidence about union thuggery in the CFMEU they’ve given them $11.2 million in donations over the last few years and they cannot make a decision in the best interests of the Australian public.

JOURNALIST: Well then to you Anthony Albanese on this issue, are we going at some point get to the core of the debate about the Australian Building and Construction Commission or are you happy for it to be debated through this discussion about horse trading and what may or may not be required to get it through the Upper House?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well the fact is that we now have exposed emails between Michael Keenan’s office and Senator Leyonhjelm’s office trading off of votes in order to secure support for amendments to the migration act last year, so we know that the horse trading happened last year, and we know that the horse trading was happening this year as well because Malcolm Turnbull made it clear that he had been in negotiations with Senator Leyonhjelm. And today we have National Party members including Bridget McKenzie and Mark Coulton out there calling for a weakening of the gun laws and the allowing of these automatic type weapons into Australia. Now Malcolm Turnbull needs to make it clear whether he will allow these guns into Australia or not and if there is an allowance of that to happen then I think Australians are entitled given what’s on the record to think that there’s some fix in here. And Malcolm Turnbull had lots of opportunities, he was asked on multiple occasions on radio, then he was asked on multiple occasions in a doorstop, then we actually had a debate in Parliament, and at no stage until question time did he speak English, did he actually say what was required.

JOURNALIST: That might all be valid Albo but to Will’s question, specifically about the CFMEU, and the Labor Party has received some $11 million in donations from that union, do you accept…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well over what period of time, I mean really, why not…

JOURNALIST: Year 2000

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Oh well really?

JOURNALIST: Well you have accepted the money, can you just answer this question, do you accept that there is any evidence of serious criminality against the CFMEU?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: I accept that wherever there’s criminality there should be action taken against those individuals who are responsible for it, whether they be trade unionists, or employers. And the other thing is you can’t actually have one without the other of course, you can’t have a corrupt union official without a corrupt boss, and both should be prosecuted.

JOURNALIST: It just seems funny, you guys will quite happily paint the banks as the, you know the forces of Satan but when it comes to…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well we haven’t said that at all…

JOURNALIST: Well you’ve gone close.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: We haven’t said that at all, what we’ve said is there should be a royal commission, there should be scrutiny of the banks, we had a…

JOURNALIST: But no scrutiny of the CFMEU?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: We had a royal commission, David, into the trade union movement and any actions of…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: And the royal commission recommended an independent regulator.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well what we say is let’s beef up ASIC’s powers, let’s have the body that looks at companies and practices, extend its powers to look at unions, what he have here is legislation whereby if you’re a trade unionist who is accused of something you won’t have the same rights that a mass murdered or drug runner has.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That’s rubbish, that is the CFMEU’s line, that is the CFMEU’s propaganda.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: No that’s what’s in the legislation.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: And it isn’t true.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well I let you go Christopher, I let you go.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You’ve had a good run.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Uninterrupted, and the problem here is that when you have the Law Council of Australia saying that this legislation is contrary to the rule of law, that’s the objection that we have here is that workers should be treated the same as everyone else, they do have rights, including the rights to proper legal representation, and what we have here is - if we had a government with just a little bit of, a little bit more oompft at going after corporate tax evaders or anyone else in society who’s doing the wrong thing, the same that they do in terms of unionists then Australia will be better off. They didn’t mention this during the election campaign, didn’t mention it.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well you’ve had a pretty fair run Anthony, I meant the truth is most of what you said is complete nonsense and I’ve got to admire your chutzpah for trying to get away with it.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: What, the Law Council of Australia haven’t said that?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You cannot say that the CFMEU is a rogue union in spite of the royal commission stating that and recommending there should be in independent regulator like the ABCC, that’s why Dyson Heydon’s royal commission said that.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Did they recommend the CFMEU be disbanded did they as a rogue union? No they didn’t’, not they didn’t, when you have a rogue union like the BLF it was a federal Labor government that disbanded that organisation, wherever there’s corruption…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’ll tell you what they said, they said the conduct that has emerged discloses systemic corruption and unlawful conduct including corrupt payments, physical and verbal violence, threats, intimidation, abuse…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Who made the corrupt payment…

JOURNALIST: Alright guys I want to direct the last question to you if I can Chris, if…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Employers, you never mention…

JOURNALIST: Hang on a minute, now this whole fiasco as it unfolded yesterday I know that in politics you’ve got to play the hand that they’ve dealt you, but how is it that a bloke like David Leyonhjelm who can end up holding the whip hand in the Senate, you go to see him about a matter involving industrial relations, the guy’s first instinct is to start talking about certain types of guns that he thinks should be brought into Australia. In hindsight wouldn’t it be better to say listen mate, we’re here to talk to you about a union, we’re here to talk to you about the building industry, we’re not going to go down the path of abhorrent horse trading involving other issues that he’s got a bee in his bonnet about.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the Australian public...

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Absolutely it would be.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The Australian public voted for the Senate that we have to deal with, it has 11 cross-benchers and we are working with them, we’ve been very successful passing the omnibus savings bill, passing all sorts of important legislation…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That was with us by the way.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: And we’ll continue to work…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That was with Labor.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Now you keep interrupting, we’ll continue to work with the cross bench that the Australian public voted for, that is democracy, that’s how democracy in Australia works.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: I’ll tell you what it’s not…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: And Labor is…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Sitting down and having a guns for legislation debate

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Which is a lie, that’s gun propaganda.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Having guns for legislation debate.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Stop your propaganda Anthony.

JOURNALIST: Christopher it’s not just Anthony Albanese that’s questioning this horse trading, Tony Abbott was moved to tweet about it as well.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: We will work with the Senate…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: (inaudible) Christopher Pyne that’s clear.

JOURNALIST: Alright.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: We will get things done because that’s what we’ve been elected to do…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well how about you have some integrity and say we won’t discuss guns for other legislation.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Sitting in a corner

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You have, in emails.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Holding your breath until you turn blue and saying I’m not going to talk to the cross benchers about X because I want to talk to they about Y doesn’t get things done, the public are expecting us to get on with the job and that’s exactly what we’re doing.

JOURNALIST: I’ll tell you if this morning’s exchange has been any indication it should be another wild and woolly question time this afternoon, Christopher Pyne and Anthony Albanese thanks very much for joining us for two tribes this morning.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Good to be with you.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Pleasure.