5AA

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Interview – 5AA with David Penberthy & Will Goodings and Anthony Albanese
Wednesday 2^nd March 2016

SUBJECTS: Defence White Paper, Joe Bullock, Negative Gearing;

WILL GOODINGS: Right on 23 minutes to 9 it’s that time of the week that we always look forward to Anthony Albanese and Christopher Pyne join us as two tribes go to war good morning Anthony Albanese.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Good morning.

WILL GOODINGS: And good morning Christopher Pyne.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning Will, and good morning David, good morning Anthony.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Chris Pyne to you first, The Australian newspaper om its front page this morning has quoted on its front page this morning has quoted from sections of the Draft White Paper that was prepared under former Prime Minister Tony Abbott and then Defence Minister Kevin Andrews. And it said that the acquisition of new subs would begin almost a decade earlier than what is now planned, in fact the ex-Prime Minister is now quoted as saying he’s flabbergasted at the decision. Why is there such a distance between the commencement of the project in the draft under Abbott and what is now the final paper under Turnbull?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well there’s obviously a lot of confusion in that story because in fact it’s not about the acquisition of the submarines which begins exactly when it was always supposed to in the next few years which means jobs for SA and 12 subs, it’s about the operations of the submarines beginning. So we take the best advice of Defence, and if, drafts are draft documents obviously, they’re drafts they’re not supposed to be the final document, whatever happened between the draft and the final document would have happened on the basis of the advice from defence. The acquisition of the subs happens at exactly the same time it was always planned, the subs being in the water and starting their operations appears to have been pushed back a couple of years certainly not 10 years and if you actually read into the story you’ll see that Dennis Shanahan muddies the waters in terms of what is the actual numbers of years. So we rely on Defence’s advice, drafts are draft documents it doesn’t mean anything in terms of SAs 12 subs and more jobs. But I would make the point that it is a highly classified document, there are no more classified documents than ones that are in the National Security Committee and therefore the Government will take this leak to The Australian very seriously.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Well the source of the leaker you would presume is the former Prime Minister of Australia Tony Abbott, though Christopher, the thing about this story that in a way is more interesting is it’s a red hot political story. Because a bit like Labor had with Kevin Rudd on the cusp of an election when Julia Gillard had seized the leadership off him, doesn’t this story confirm that Tony Abbott is now completely off the leash and leaking against Malcolm Turnbull like a crazy man?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: [Laughing] Well look David I wouldn’t describe him that way. The public want Malcolm Turnbull to succeed because they know that we are in an economic transition and they believe that the Coalition is the best party to manage that transition and that’s the job we’re doing with things like the Defence White Paper, the Defence Industry Policy Statement, the Innovation Agenda, and there’ll be more announcements to come, infrastructure-

DAVID PENBERTHY: The public might want Malcolm Turnbull to succeed, but do you think that Tony Abbott does?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the polls strongly indicate that the public are very pro Malcolm Turnbull because they know that he is the best person to lead the country in this transition period and I don’t think that’s going to change because of a story on the front page of the Australian.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Ok, over to you Albo. Labor’s got a couple of internal issues itself one of which is a Western Australian Labor Senator Joe Bullock who was quite vocal last week about your party’s support for the Safe Schools Program. He has now quit the ALP in protest at being bound on the question of same sex marriage, is his resignation maybe a sign that Labor has perhaps drifted a little bit too far from the mainstream on these issues?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: No not at all, Joe Bullock has I think acted in a principled way, he has said he can’t advocate for Labor so therefore he will leave the Senate. He, I heard an interview he gave earlier this morning where he essentially said the only reason why he was the Senator was because he had Australian Labor party next to his name, and he’s right there. He has strong views over marriage equality; I certainly am of the view that these matters should be decided by conscience. I haven’t changed on any of those issues, I’m a supporter of marriage equality but I think that people should have the right to have their say; I think the truth is that joe on a range of issues has perhaps drifted from being in a position to be able to support the Labor party.

DAVID PENBERTHY: But same sex marriage is one thing, a program as the minus 18 program in Victoria does, which says that it’s inappropriate to ask new parents if they’ve had boys or girls as children is, this is crazy stuff isn’t it?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, I mean the Safe Schools Program I think is something that is worthwhile, I mean I can’t see how people can object to teaching tolerance which is essentially is all that the Safe Schools Program is. The comments of various coalition members, have quoted documents that aren’t part of the Safe Schools Program in order to whip up some hysteria about the program and that of course is just part of the Tony Abbott versus Malcolm Turnbull proxy war that we’ve seen that you just talked to Christopher about. Where, whether it’s Tony Abbott trying to literally torpedo his own Government over subs and over dates and that extraordinary leak on the front page of The Australian, or whether it be Safe Schools this is a Coalition that is in conflict with itself right across the policy spectrum.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Chris Pyne, it’s interesting contemplating what Tony Abbott’s had to say on a number of policy fronts, you might disagree with him on the Defence White Paper him being flabbergasted at the change in the timeline, what about with regard to negative gearing? Where is the Coalition currently on that? Are you in the Turnbull camp or the Tony Abbott camp?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well we’re all in exactly the same camp.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Oh.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: And the same camp is that Labor’s negative gearing policy is a threat to house values, it will take a third of investors out of the existing housing market and put them in the new housing market which will dampen demand in the existing houses and increase demand in the new houses, as a consequence prices will go down for existing houses and up for new houses and Labor has not thought this policy through. Bill Shorten is unravelling before our very eyes unfortunately and it just highlights why they are not the party to manage the transition to the new economy.

DAVID PENBERTHY: But isn’t it the case though Christopher that you guys still haven’t made up your mind about whether you will or won’t do anything about negative gearing?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well we can’t be salami slice David, from one policy to another where…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: [Interrupting] That’s a shocker of an analogy, give it up.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: … Before budgets, oppositions and media commentators always demand the Government rule this in and rule this out because it helps fill their front pages, but it’s not what a sensible Government does, we’re methodically going through the process of putting together a tax package for the budget and that’s what the public expect us to do. But what we won’t be doing is Labor’s negative gearing policy which hurts mums and dads. So 1.2 million Australians who negatively gear, the vast majority of those are policemen, nurses, clerks, fitters and turners, hardly any are lawyers and surgeons and economics professors. Labor has taken a sledgehammer to negative gearing and they’re hurting mum and dad investors and self-funded retirees.

DAVID PENBERTHY: But Christopher isn’t it the case, I mean you say commentators play the parlour game of can you rule this in can you rule this out, but the reality was that yesterday it was the former Prime Minister who was playing that game inside the Party Room meeting along with Eric Abetz by saying to Malcolm Turnbull effectively, can you rule out changing negative gearing?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well he put his views about negative gearing and a lot of people agree with him and Malcolm has very similar views. But we’re not going to rule things in and rule things out, what Tony Abbott was saying is that Malcolm Turnbull has done a brilliant job at explaining to the Australian public how Labor’s policy is a risk to the economy and a risk to house values and I agree with that.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Your nose is growing Christopher if you’re suggesting that Tony Abbott uttered the words ‘Malcolm Turnbull is doing a brilliant job.’

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He did say that. It’s quoted in the newspapers Anthony.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That just means you briefed that out, it doesn’t mean he said it.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He said you’re doing brilliantly at exposing Labor’s policy as a risk to the economy and it’s actually quoted in the papers. Now it shouldn’t’ be quoted in the papers it happened in the Party Room but as we all know it leaks like a sieve, all party rooms leak like sieves unfortunately.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Some more than others.

DAVID PENBERTHY: We’re going to have to leave it here; finally though Albo we understand it’s your birthday,

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Oh Happy Birthday Albo!

ANTHONY ALBANESE: It is indeed.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Have you got anything for Albo Christopher?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Oh just, have I got anything for Albo, I hate to think what I, hemlock?

DAVID & WILL: [laughing]

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Don’t accept anything from me today Anthony, no glasses of water-

ANTHONY ALBANESE: I would have expected at least something across the chamber you know.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Maybe some mulled wine with some hemlock in it.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Beware Liberal front benchers bearing gifts.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: He’s mean even on my birthday, what a miserable person.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Happy birthday Albo, happy birthday, you don’t look a day over 40.

DAVID PENBERTHY: Wonderfully warm note to end on, thanks very much guys we’ll do it again next week.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Good on you guys, bye.

[ends]