2GB Chris Smith

SUBJECTS: Royal Commission into Child Sexual Abuse

E&OE..........

(Greetings omitted) 

Chris Smith: What are you saying should be investigated within this Royal Commission in terms of the Catholic Church’s rule on what is said in the confessional?

Christopher Pyne: Well Chris I was asked a question, did I think that it was reasonable for confessions made to a priest in a confessional to therefore remain within the confessional. The point I am making and let’s be very clear as it is a very serious issue, is the Church can make its own rules that’s a matter for the Church, but as a Member of Parliament if I am asked my advice whether a crime or an alleged crime should be revealed the answer is clearly yes. If a priest hears a confession from another priest or in fact anyone else who confesses to sexual abuse of a child I think there is a moral obligation and in some jurisdictions a legal obligation for be reported to the appropriate authority. And I would add that I think it is completely untenable to heap that burden onto a priest to hear that confession and know they are talking to a person who has confessed to committing a crime of sexual abuse and expect that to then keep that to themselves with potentially the person who has confessed likely to offend again. 

Smith: Okay, I understand that completely. I am actually on your side because I don’t believe that any religion, it doesn’t matter what religion we are speaking of, or what connection that religion has with the laws or our Parliament, I don’t think that it should be above the law or above the state or above the Parliament which means I am on your side. However, your average Catholic and Cardinal Pell is certainly in this category, he would argue that this is sacrosanct and it should be above the law.

Pyne: Well let me say, I am a Catholic and my children all go to Catholic schools and I have a great regard for the Catholic Church and think it has been one of the greatest forces for good in the last two thousand years and I also have a very high regard for Cardinal Pell. My point simply is that as Members of Parliament could not advise anyone to keep to themselves a crime against a child that has been confessed to them.

Smith: But that is the rule in the Catholic Church now.

Pyne: That is the rule within the Church and the Church can make its own rules but if an individual priest determines that they intend to report a fellow priest or simply a parishioner to the authorities because they have confessed a crime of sexual abuse against a child I think they are doing the right thing.

Smith: Have you spoken to your leader about this?

Pyne: Tony Abbott and I talk all the time and I think you will find he was asked about this question today at a press conference and he said that every Australian should obey the law, that no one should be above the law, and that applies to priests, doctors, teachers, friends regardless of where this information comes to pass.

Smith: Ok but the word ‘inviolable’ was used by Cardinal Pell yesterday and he made it quite clear that confessional is off the limits when it comes to police action.

Pyne: Well I would expect Cardinal Pell to continue to support the doctrines of the Church. It would be very unusual if the head of the Church in Australia didn’t do so.

Smith: But given the severity of child abuse which has been attached to the Catholic Church, among other institutions, aren’t those doctrines out-dated now?

Pyne: Well look I think that it would be presumptuous of me to debate the doctrines of the Church in that way. I mean that is a matter for the Vatican, for the Papacy, for the Cardinals and for the members of the Church to determine over a period of time. But I would not expect Cardinal Pell to say anything other than the doctrines of the Church should be abided by. Equally I wouldn’t expect any Member of Parliament to say anything other than if a person comes by evidence of sexual abuse of a child they should report it.
Smith: Yes.

Pyne: This is where the separation of Church and State becomes very important.

Smith: Yes not only important but very smudged at the edges and no doubt this will be an ongoing argument right through this Royal Commission.

Pyne: But also don’t you think it is intolerable that a priest who hears this information should then be expected to keep it to themselves.

Smith: I agree, I agree. Totally unworkable. And now that we know the extent of child abuse around the world, forget about Australia, how could you keep it to yourself?

Pyne: Well I don’t know how they could but I think it is unfair to expect them to do so.

Smith: Ok, good to catch up this afternoon. Thank you for your time.

Pyne: Pleasure.

Smith: Alright there you go, Opposition Business Leader, Chris Pyne and that’s where he stands.

ENDS