Two Chrisses on ABC 891 today 17 November 2008

Excerpts of “Two Chrisses”

17 November 2008, 10am (CST)

Matthew Abraham:

…Chris Pyne, you no doubt will be watching ‘The Howard Years’ tonight on the ABC… do you get a cameo mention?

Christopher Pyne MP:

Well, I did an interview for The Howard Years with Fran Kelly I did a very long interview with her if I do get a run it’ll be in the last episode rather than the first episode but I will be watching avidly tonight.

Abraham:

Grant Cameron rang to say that Chris Pyne is in the first episode … he’s had a sneak preview of the first show and Pyne is definitely in.

Pyne:

Hooray

Abraham:

Now you’re trying to remember what you said that got you in the first episode.

Pyne:

It must have been bad.

Schacht/Bevan/Abraham/Caller

(Discussion about whether Christopher Pyne has had a flu shot.)

Caller Erthen:

I have a question for Mr Christopher Pyne - you want me to tell you? I would like to know whether or not it is true that Christopher sent a letter to one of his constituents one day before the election last November promising to do something for the self-funded retirees in view of the fact that nothing had been done to increase the limits of singles who were struggling and I asked this question - why did he promise to do that when for eleven years he did nothing whatsoever?

Pyne:

Well I don’t agree with Erthen at all that the Howard government or me did nothing for self-funded retirees for eleven and a half years, in fact, the Coalition government under John Howard while it could always do more for all Australians was second to none in its treatment of self-funded retirees. I think the two best examples I can give are that we actually raised the tax-free threshold for self-funded retirees to the same as pensioners which Labor would never even consider doing when they were in power, and of course we introduced the private health insurance rebate which Labor would never have done, which helped a lot of people - pensioners and self-funded retirees. So the premise of Erthen’s statement that the Coalition did nothing for self-funded retirees, is simply false and can’t be backed up factually …

Abraham:

A lot of people are hurting during what is going on at the moment, but self-funded retirees, from the feedback we’re getting, they’re hurting.

Chris Schacht:

With the collapse in returns in the stock market and everything, there’s just no argument about that, and that’s why the Federal Government has put that massive expenditure boost into the economy, to get the economy going so those returns can start growing again …

David Bevan:

The front page of The Australian today, the headline is ‘Gatekeepers part of the problem, Mudine’ … indigenous leader Warren Mundine has attacked ideologically driven white gatekeepers in Aboriginal communities, saying one of the biggest problems they have is quote, ‘people who want to protect Aboriginal people’. Mr Mundine said ‘there are some people who seem to go to these communities who quite frankly wouldn’t get a job outside, there are other ones who go there who are totally ideologically driven and become gatekeepers. In fact one of the biggest problems we have is people who want to protect Aboriginal people, it drives me to no end of madness. We have people also who are going into the communities and they are not moving on and letting Aboriginal people move up and take over their positions’. Chris Schacht?

Schacht:

Warren Mundine, who is a former president of the Labor Party in Australia, as the article says, and stood as a Senate candidate and unfortunately was number three on the ticket in New South Wales and didn’t get elected, election before last and I hope one day he does get elected, because I think he speaks strongly and without fear or favour and what he’s raising there, and he’s a closer expert to it than I’ll ever be and I think that what he says has to be considered, that you don’t want a perpetual bureaucracy of non-indigenous people appearing, or even indirectly blocking Aboriginal aspirations to become more, looking after their own affairs, that’s what we should all be about, but of course, like in anything, if you’ve got a good job and it’s a well-paid job, and you like doing it, none of us like giving up that job and taking a risk that after a period of time, the contract runs out and you won’t be reappointed, so you’re always going to get that anywhere in a bureaucracy, but I think Warren Mundine’s coments can’t be ignored …

Pyne:

I think the best answer I can give is my own experience. When Tony Abbott and I went out to the APY Lands a couple of years ago when we were Minister and Junior Minister in Health, it did strike me that a lot of the issues that were being raised by indigenous people were very practical ones and when we raised the issues with the generally white bureaucrats, most of the responses were basically very esoteric … they were about issues that nobody else had raised with us in the APY Lands except the white bureaucrats and I got the sense that while they were doing their best, they might have been focusing on some of the things that really didn’t affect the daily lives of Aboriginal people as much as they might have affected some arcane aspect of land rights law and quite frankly I think Aboriginal people just want a few practical services that work for them out in the community. So, I think Warren Mundine is probably on the same track as the experience that I had when I lived out there for three nights a couple of years ago.

Abraham:

Chris Schacht, the retirement, the decision by Rob Kerin to pull the pin on his parliamentary career and that sparks a by-election. Now the Government has put that down for early, actually almost mid-January, some criticism by the Opposition that why are you doing this, which is a bit odd given that … they’ve created it.

Bevan:

They were critical of the time, they were saying that it could’ve been held in early December so that the people of Frome wouldn’t be without an MP, but they also wanted an assurance from the Premier that during the course of the by-election campaign the Government would put a halt to its advertising budget. I think Vickie Chapman summed it up by saying, are we going to have to look at your mug on the telly every night during the campaign?

Schacht:

I have to say first of all I want to, though he’s on the other side of politics, all my dealings with Rob Kerin have, in business and just personal contact and politics have always been very good and I just wish him well, even though some people will criticise him for leaving mid-term, creating a by-election rather than sitting it out. I think when he said he’s had it, he’s tired, he thinks a new person should have a chance to establish themselves before the election so they’re fully on board for the election so they’re fully on board for the election campaign in 2010, I think that’s a reasonable thing. So I just want to just say at a personal level, though he’s on the other side of politics, Rob Kerin was a good Member of Parliament and a good South Australian, even though I disagree on some of the things he did

Abraham:

What is like, now you’d know the numbers and particularly in rural seats and you’re a bit of a specialist in South Australia and the Labor Party vote, it’s what, around 3% to 4%?

Schacht:

3% to 4% which was a very good result we got at the last State election

Abraham:

So you would expect, what to happen in a by-election?

Schacht:

We had a good candidate - a roadie up there sort of from Port Pirie last time - and I understand he’s standing again and I’m glad to hear that, I would imagine … there should be despite however the Labor Party campaigns, there’ll be a natural swing against the Government in this sort of seat of Frome which is most is Port Pirie, stretching down into the Clare Valley, so it’s got a big rural component, country town, and that’s why it is a comfortable Liberal seat normally, it’s only the Labor voting area of Port Pirie that gets us close but it’s always a Liberal seat and…

Abraham:

A big swing?

Schacht:

Well, it’s too early to tell but I would imagine it will be several percentage points, just as a natural by-election swing. I have to say I think the Liberals will campaign on the health, hospital, country hospital issue, even though the Government’s backed away from that, and I just think they’ll genuinely argue that send the Government a message, you’re not changing the Government but you can give them a good kick in the shin … kick in the pants as a by-election, which every Opposition says in a by-election like this

Abraham:

It’ll be interesting in what will be an election year, won’t it? That will start the year for the Rann Government

Schacht:

There’ll be thirteen months before the election and so on, so I

Abraham:

It’s not ideal for them, is it?

Schacht:

No, I have to say it’s not ideal, but conversely I think that you’ve always got, because there will be a swing against the Government, if it’s a few percentage points - four or five or six percent - I would’ve thought that’s probably a reasonable result …

Pyne:

Well the Frome by-election does represent an opportunity for the voters in Frome to send a message to the Rann Government that they’re not happy on a number of fronts, they’re not happy about the economic handling of the budget or the handling of the budget which goes straight to South Australia’s economy. The fact that they’re now saying a whole number of projects will have to be put on hold when in fact last year’s budget the commentators said even then that they thought a lot of the forecasts were very rubbery from the Foley budget. The handling of water, particularly the Murray Darling Basin and the Lower Lakes, and most importantly for country people, and specifically in that area, the handling of country hospitals and health services, so it does present an opportunity for the voters of Frome to demonstrate that the Rann Government needs to pull up its socks.

Bevan:

But there could also be an opportunity to see how people are likely to vote in other country regions, such as Karlene Maywald’s seat of Chaffey, and Rory McEwen’s seat of Mount Gambier.

Pyne:

Well there are a number of unique characteristics in country areas and I’m sure C1 would agree. For example, I think Frome will vote differently to Chaffey and Mount Gambier and even Giles in the next State election. I think that Chaffey and Mount Gambier with two Independent Members - one retiring, one who’s I think likely to be defeated - will be quite a different result. Country voters tend to focus on the issues that are important to them locally and each region has its own issues, so I think Frome is a discrete by-election outcome. What it will indicate to me though is how people are feeling more towards Labor in cities like Port Pirie, Port Augusta, Whyalla and that will go directly to Giles and the outcome for Lyn Breur

Abraham:

So those booths will be interesting

Schacht:

And there’s one issue that came out last week, I don’t know how strong it is but it was in the press, that the company that now owns the smelter at Port Pirie has suggested.

Pyne:

Nyrstar

Schacht:

That if the greenhouse gas emissions tax comes in, they will be looking to shift their operation somewhere else in the world. Now companies always say this is a threat to scare politicians, but with a by-election coming up I found it interesting that that appeared that story appeared the week that Rob Kerin said he is leaving and there would be a by-election because that smelter, the impact on employment and economic future of Pirie and the surrounding area, can’t be underestimated.

Bevan:

Well the news today, and our listeners would’ve heard ABC News saying that there’s no relief for irrigators, with the announcement that water allocations will remain at 15% for the next month, now I think a lot of people realise that Karlene Maywald is not responsible for the amount of water in the system, but there’s a lot of bad feeling that over the way the Government managed water allocations in the last year or so. A lot of people bought up water at great expense, ran into debt, only to have water allocations relaxed a month or two later and they were thinking, we’re saddled with this debt, if only you could’ve managed this better. Now I wonder whether the swing against Karlene Maywald that’s shown up in recent polls can be traced back to that?

Schacht:

May have been … I heard her interview with you blokes this morning and I thought as usual, Karlene never backed off and she always fronts up even when she’s under a fair bit of criticism and that was about the desalination plant and so on. The issue of allocation of water licences whichever way a government jumped, doesn’t matter Labor or Liberal, in this unprecedented period of lack of water to go around for everyone wants, just means there will never be a good outcome for everybody and governments will, not saying that this was a mistake, but there will be issues like trying to judge what the value of the water, shall I buy or wait a month and hope it rains and more water comes in and then the price will drop or they can release more water. It is just in my view there is no way you’ll get that perfectly right and the big debate you had this morning about the pipeline in Melbourne, I just want to go to Melbourne, just go back to the fundamental issue is the Federal Government has to take complete control of he Murray Darling Basin and that includes managing if a pipeline is built, that the national Government will control the allocation of water across the whole of the basin, including water to Melbourne.

Bevan:

Well what did you think of Mark Butler’s performance?

Schacht:

Well he was put arguing what the cooperative agreement was, and I’ve been a critic of that agreement from the very beginning because.

Pyne:

And I agree with C1 about this.

Schacht:

And we both agree on this, I just hope that the Liberal Party sticks to its, the Opposition, Chris becomes the Liberal Party position, irrespective of what a State Labor or Liberal premier says, the Federal Government takes control, puts the legislation through and uses its financial clout to make sure the states don’t knock it off.

Abraham:

Okay, and we’ve tried consistently to get Senator Penny Wong’s position on that, she occasionally has come on the program, she would not comment on that issue and we’re offered Mark Butler or he offered himself in lieu of that, but we’re always happy to have the Federal Minister’s perspective, that’s what we’re here for.

Schacht:

The debate you have with that legislation at the moment, what’s happening in the Federal Parliament and the State Parliament of Victoria, just shows you why you can’t let the states, you’ve got to have one national body. This argument, what State Parliaments are doing is just ridiculous.

Abraham:

Chris Schacht, thank you …and Chris Pyne … thank you to both of you.

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